Hard Starting - BPU TT6

[Samurai 20V]

Hi guys,

 

My BPU TT6 is developing an issue with starting.

 

When starting when cold, it takes a few swings before it fires, sometimes it doesn't fire, it does so on the 2nd try.

When warm it fires much easier.

 

ECU is stock, (Mines Remap).

 

The car seems to be running fine, recent dyno runs show the power where it should be, oil consumption is normal..

I do seem to notice it starts easier after an oil change, I use 5W-40 in the car. (its been 4000kms since my last oil change)

 

Should I look at servicing the starter? Or should I be looking somewhere else?

 

Thanks in advance.

[MATT RR]

I had this issue on my last UK spec, when cold it wouldnt start very well, and eventually not at all, ended up being the starter motor, changed it and it started first time everytime Im no mechanic though just sharing what sounds like a similar experience!

[Samurai 20V]

I had this issue on my last UK spec, when cold it wouldnt start very well, and eventually not at all, ended up being the starter motor, changed it and it started first time everytime Im no mechanic though just sharing what sounds like a similar experience!

 

Thanks mate..

[alxns7]

If it fires, the starter motor is fine isn't it? I had the same issue, it ended up being the water temp sensor (the one with two wires). The fact that it's easier when warm should confirm this.

[Samurai 20V]

If it fires, the starter motor is fine isn't it? I had the same issue, it ended up being the water temp sensor (the one with two wires). The fact that it's easier when warm should confirm this.

 

I had the same thought, I noticed the AFR gauge is reading leaner on cold start then it used to be..

[alxns7]

You can do a resistance check following this thread http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?238522-2JZ-sensor-resistance

 

But it might just be a connector problem as on mine

[Scott]

I'd suggest a thicker oil for SA mate. 10w50 would be more suited than 5w40. 40 is more likely to get past the rings.

[Samurai 20V]

You can do a resistance check following this thread http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?238522-2JZ-sensor-resistance

 

But it might just be a connector problem as on mine

 

Will check that out..

[Samurai 20V]

I'd suggest a thicker oil for SA mate. 10w50 would be more suited than 5w40. 40 is more likely to get past the rings.

 

I used HKS 10W50 in Japan, car ran faultlessly..

 

I tried to find 10W50 here, no luck. I think Liqui Moly do make it, will research it..

 

Seeing as though the car starts on the turn after an oil change, you may be on the money..

[Samurai 20V]

I'd suggest a thicker oil for SA mate. 10w50 would be more suited than 5w40. 40 is more likely to get past the rings.

 

Came across Total & Liqui Moly 10W60 and Liqui Moly & ELF 5W50..

 

No 10W50..

[Guest suprageek]

Came across Total & Liqui Moly 10W60 and Liqui Moly & ELF 5W50..

 

No 10W50..

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/search/go?w=10w50

[Scott]

I think 10w60 would be a bit too much. As linked above, Opie may ship worldwide?

[Samurai 20V]

I think 10w60 would be a bit too much. As linked above, Opie may ship worldwide?

 

Will inquire if he can, I sent requests to the local Elf & Fuchs, lets see what they can do..

 

Would 5W50 be acceptable?

[Scott]

Will inquire if he can, I sent requests to the local Elf & Fuchs, lets see what they can do..

 

Would 5W50 be acceptable?

 

The 5w and 10w is the winter viscocity. As you are in SA you won't really have a winter I imagine so I would stick with the 10w as it's thicker and less likely to pass the rings.

[Samurai 20V]

The 5w and 10w is the winter viscocity. As you are in SA you won't really have a winter I imagine so I would stick with the 10w as it's thicker and less likely to pass the rings.

 

Ok, I have some leads on Fuchs, lets hope it pans out..

[Samurai 20V]

Here is some video..

 

This is a good start..

 

http://vid155.photobucket.com/albums/s298/Rajeevjagath/IMG_6334_zpsnfx9pi2h.mp4

 

This is a bad start.. It does get worse than this sometimes...

 

http://vid155.photobucket.com/albums/s298/Rajeevjagath/IMG_6335_zpsxepypvjs.mp4

[Tricky-Ricky]

I wouldn't say that particularly bad, I was expecting it to take far longer by what you said previously, also if the ECU coolant temp sensor was faulty the AFRs would be showing rich and not lean.

As for oil grade I wouldn't exspect to notice any difference between a 5W and 10W unless your seeing temps of -15-20, I would agree that a W60 would be way to thick, in fact I wouldn't be using a W50, 10W40 should be fine.

[Scott]

40 has been known to go past the seals and cause starting issues Ricky

 

As for the 5w vs 10w, the 10w is more relevant to warmer countries and the 5w (and in some cases 0w) is more relevant to colder countries. As he's in SA I would always suggest the 10 over the 5.

[Tricky-Ricky]

Go past what seals? I have never seen or had any problems with using a 10W40 the std recommended is 10W30,

This chart will give an idea of just what temps oil will cope with.

 

[Samurai 20V]

I wouldn't say that particularly bad, I was expecting it to take far longer by what you said previously, also if the ECU coolant temp sensor was faulty the AFRs would be showing rich and not lean.

As for oil grade I wouldn't exspect to notice any difference between a 5W and 10W unless your seeing temps of -15-20, I would agree that a W60 would be way to thick, in fact I wouldn't be using a W50, 10W40 should be fine.

 

Thanks for the info mate, the video is a mild one, it does take a few swings more at times, I'd say another 3..

10W50 is proving a challenge to source here, will consider 10W40 as well.

[alxns7]

I wouldn't say that particularly bad, I was expecting it to take far longer by what you said previously, also if the ECU coolant temp sensor was faulty the AFRs would be showing rich and not lean.

As for oil grade I wouldn't exspect to notice any difference between a 5W and 10W unless your seeing temps of -15-20, I would agree that a W60 would be way to thick, in fact I wouldn't be using a W50, 10W40 should be fine.

 

I agree that is not as bad as mine was! I had to open the throttle so it would start after cranking for 3-5 sec when cold.

[Scott]

Go past what seals? I have never seen or had any problems with using a 10W40 the std recommended is 10W30,

This chart will give an idea of just what temps oil will cope with.

 

http://www.mazdabg.com/ftp-uploads/Mazda/--Repair%20Instructions--/2001%20Mazda%20Tribute/chiltonimages/8000/88525g04L.jpg

 

Stem seals. Drops into the chamber on cooldown and sits on the piston contaminating the initial burn.

 

I always read that 40 was what Toyota recommended but in the UK as the cars are getting older 50 is more suited.

 

I'm not talking about what temps the oils are good for, just how suited they are to the current situation with all the variables in play.

[Tricky-Ricky]

Worn valve stem seals cause this, should have no problems with good seals regardless of oil grade, a 5W40 would be more prone to this than a 10W40 simply because the cold viscosity is thinner, going past stem seals would also point to blocked drains as well as bad seals.

[Scott]

Worn valve stem seals cause this, should have no problems with good seals regardless of oil grade, a 5W40 would be more prone to this than a 10W40 simply because the cold viscosity is thinner, going past stem seals would also point to blocked drains as well as bad seals.

 

Indeed... that's what I said. The warm viscosity of 5w40 is also thinner than 10w50 so when parking up and allowing the car to cool it can also creep past the seals. It's a very common occurrence with older cars and as I've said all along, 10w50 can help ease the issue until there is no saving it and the valve seals need replaced.

 

I honestly feel like you argue with me sometimes just for the sake of arguing.

[Tricky-Ricky]

Ditto! its because to me you have the attitude of someone who always believes he knows better.

 

You initially made a statement that a 10W40 oil would get past the rings, and then changed that to the valve stem seals,

To which I replied that this was down to worn stem seals, and bad oil drainage from the follower wells, and that oil grade would have little impact, along with the fact that the oil Toyota specified was a 10W30, I still had the Toyota sticker on my cam cover,

 

Now further to this in order for oil to build up enough to actually drain down the seals to any degree, that would introduce enough oil to impede starting, the level would have to be such that it reached the seal hight in the follower well, and if this did occur it would only effect those cylinders where the valve was open, and also due to the angle of the valves the oil would likely only reach the edge of the piston and drain down the rings.

 

The reason worn valve stem seals show up most/smoke on start up is due to the amount of vacuum in the inlet and exhaust when running, and so pulls any oil from the follower wells through the worn seals, but this will usually only last for a short time until things warm up and seal better, unless the seals are very bad, in which case it will keep smoking.

 

I would also disagree that just because the engine may be 15 years old or more that it need a thicker hot viscosity oil if it was in good condition, maybe if it had done extended mileage and there was evidence to suggest that it had bearing and bore wear, but otherwise all using higher viscosity oil will do is to add oil drag to the engine, and increase oil pressure/ or at least increase the work the oil pressure relief valve has to do to keep the pressure down, the std pump makes very good pressure anyway as it was designed to run 10W30 oil.