kjgreen3 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 This. In these types of story the OP always tends to understate their actions. Police don't just follow a couple of law abiding citizens to a car park and block them in because they were driving in a normal fashion. Toy coppers would (PCSO's as stated by the OP) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripped_fear Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 This. In these types of story the OP always tends to understate their actions. Police don't just follow a couple of law abiding citizens to a car park and block them in because they were driving in a normal fashion. Wind back 4-5 years I was 21 driving my old supra at the speed limit. There was a copper following me I assume due to the fact I was just out for a drive before stopping at my ex's house. They followed for some time until then followed me right to her drive. I parked up and they asked if it was my car as they had reports of a stolen supra racing around the island. I knew all the supras on the iow at the time, and the only other silver one was off the road. He fanied around the car for a while then went on his way. He had plenty of time to check my plate to see ifit was the car in question while he was behind me. To this day I think he was trying to find a reason to do me for something. Luckily everything on my car was declared and it was in prefect state. To the op sorry to hear of your situation and if I was in your position I would be the same. Your word against them is a horrible situation to be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesc183 Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 All I've learned from your experience so far... Don't drive a Honda. They aren't fast enough to get away from a plastic copper let alone a traffic car lol. That's very true, that and the fact the cars shape looks like a triangle of cheese - I absolutely hate the car anyway I appreciate all the replies guys, I am getting in touch with a solicitor later today regarding sending a letter of 'Disclosure' so I can go about seeing what evidence they have. I am also going to see about how I can get dash cam footage from the PCSO's car that followed me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Raven Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Just so im clear, They have no proof other than "i saw him do it" Dont get me wrong our justice system is crap but i would have thought they cant win a case like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattP Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Just so im clear, They have no proof other than "i saw him do it" Dont get me wrong our justice system is crap but i would have thought they cant win a case like that. You would be surprised with the general poor quality of Police prosecution evidence that Majistrates lap up. The other issue is they will no doubt state you were issued with a Section 59 on the day due to the "Incident" the problem I have with Section 59 notices is there is no formal redress you can make a complaint that the notice was improperly issued etc etc but ultimately the Police will tell you where to go. Section 59s were originally intended to give Police powers to move on "Warn Anti Social Car Drivers and or Gatherings" however they now use the stupid things to seize vehicles and generally cause a nuisance too which the people accused of criminality have no opportunity of a day in court to prove their innocence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 A good friend of mine was in the Daily Mail a bit ago. Got a NIP from North Wales police. Caught by a camera van on Llandudno promenade just over the 30 MPH limit. NIP asked who was the driver. He didn't know, either him or his wife, could have been either. Asked for the photo, was refused. Asked again who was driving. Went to court. Asked for the tape to be played, the rozzers wouldn't show it. Both done for speeding. Still would not produce the photo evidence. Was talking to Kirk and Bev in the pub the other night, they were not amused when I asked if they were going to Llandudno for a day out at the weekend.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3278432/We-couldn-t-remember-driving-speeding-Lamborghini-got-6-points-Wealthy-couple-hit-2-400-fines-failing-reveal-seat-supercar.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattP Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 A good friend of mine was in the Daily Mail a bit ago. Got a NIP from North Wales police. Caught by a camera van on Llandudno promenade just over the 30 MPH limit. NIP asked who was the driver. He didn't know, either him or his wife, could have been either. Asked for the photo, was refused. Asked again who was driving. Went to court. Asked for the tape to be played, the rozzers wouldn't show it. Both done for speeding. Still would not produce the photo evidence. Was talking to Kirk and Bev in the pub the other night, they were not amused when I asked if they were going to Llandudno for a day out at the weekend.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3278432/We-couldn-t-remember-driving-speeding-Lamborghini-got-6-points-Wealthy-couple-hit-2-400-fines-failing-reveal-seat-supercar.html Same old s*** what is the point of Majistrates court they generically have no legal training have no understanding of fundamental Legal principles and make ridiculous snap judgements over a cup of tea in a back room while feeling self important about being in a voluntary role. I rarely get angry at people but Majistrates courts are a huge waste of public money and create additional costs to the taxpayer by the amount of instant appeals they cause. The government can say what they want about a fair diverse Majistrates bench but after 8 years in 6-7 different Majistrates courts I am yet too see a sub 50 year old on the bench hell I have seen one Majistrate fall asleep mid hearing. I have no Bias as I have no criminal record these are just my opinions on day to day observations. Crown courts whilst still sometimes make poor decisions do it with far less frequency and Judges regularly apply the correct law appropriately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattP Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Did they appeal like the article said they intended to Chris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squiffy Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Just so im clear, They have no proof other than "i saw him do it" Dont get me wrong our justice system is crap but i would have thought they cant win a case like that. been there, done that. unfortunately that counts. The magistrate sees the policeman as the blue eyed boy who can do no wrong. we are just mere hooligans in fast cars. It cost me 6k and I lost. I now use the theory that it's cheaper and easier not to stop. (if I'm going to get banned again, it may aswell be for something I've actually done this time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Did they appeal like the article said they intended to Chris? I am not sure, they certainly have the funds to take it to a high level, but they are probably pragmatic about it, in the cold light of day. He was over there looking at a very expensive investment property, I am thinking his attitude suggested Wales has had enough of his money now and he will be putting his dosh in England instead It's funny how a perceived wrong by some traffic cops can cause the loss of a large investment in their home country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Same old s*** what is the point of Majistrates court they generically have no legal training have no understanding of fundamental Legal principles and make ridiculous snap judgements over a cup of tea in a back room while feeling self important about being in a voluntary role. I rarely get angry at people but Majistrates courts are a huge waste of public money and create additional costs to the taxpayer by the amount of instant appeals they cause. The government can say what they want about a fair diverse Majistrates bench but after 8 years in 6-7 different Majistrates courts I am yet too see a sub 50 year old on the bench hell I have seen one Majistrate fall asleep mid hearing. I have no Bias as I have no criminal record these are just my opinions on day to day observations. Crown courts whilst still sometimes make poor decisions do it with far less frequency and Judges regularly apply the correct law appropriately. Very true. I was in magistrates court for affray. They didn't know what to do as police wanted me prosecuted but I pleaded not guilty as it was self defence. I didn't even get to sit down in crown court before the judge fined CPS for wasting court time as it was clear as day that it was self defence, and he ordered the magistrates court to pay my fees and reimburse me all my costs for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattP Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Very true. I was in magistrates court for affray. They didn't know what to do as police wanted me prosecuted but I pleaded not guilty as it was self defence. I didn't even get to sit down in crown court before the judge fined CPS for wasting court time as it was clear as day that it was self defence, and he ordered the magistrates court to pay my fees and reimburse me all my costs for everything. it's one of those things that people play the "Police don't do that to normal people for no reason". Until it happens to them or somebody they know... It's not just and its not fair but as my Dad always tell me when I whine about these issues "that's life" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitbox Junkie Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Another reason to have dash cams is there any CCTV where you traveled ect but id be taking this to court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripped_fear Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 .... The government can say what they want about a fair diverse Majistrates bench but after 8 years in 6-7 different Majistrates courts I am yet too see a sub 50 year old on the bench hell I have seen one Majistrate fall asleep mid hearing. I did it at aged 19iirc. I was still at college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattP Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I did it at aged 19iirc. I was still at college. How long did you do it for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripped_fear Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 How long did you do it for? Wasn't long, a short case. Think it was two weeks from memory. Was a Drug dealing prosecution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattP Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Are you talking about Jury Service? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripped_fear Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Are you talking about Jury Service? My mistake sorry, Just re-read your original post. I some how completely read it wrong Yes I am, and I will get my coat At your actual post re Majistrates I have to agree, Was involved in a few Majistrate prosecutions when I was at the RSPCA and they were all rather 'elderly'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattP Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 My mistake sorry, Just re-read your original post. I some how completely read it wrong Yes I am, and I will get my coat Haha no worries I was whining about Majistrates I will cut Jurors a break Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Op do you (or anyone) know what you are facing if found guilty? I know many years ago I got a court summons and didn't realise you don't actually have to attend, and I knew I'd face a short ban or points and a fine, it seems to me right now you are worrying because you don't even know the min/max extent of any punishment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bailey Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 There must be some police officers on this forum, would be interesting to hear what they think about this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Havard would have just hit him with the bat for his cheek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havard Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 There must be some police officers on this forum, would be interesting to hear what they think about this topic. Havard would have just hit him with the bat for his cheek. I am retired. I had a read of this earlier and came to the conclusion that the whole situation is now a lottery. I actually believe the OP and that some PCSO have seen you driving (briskly) together and bubbled you to the traffic. There are obviously inconsistencies with the story that the cops are now stating. It is whether you want to spend money and gamble to prove that the coppers are wrong. If the coppers stories are believed then you will get a harsher punishment for not just going guilty in the first place. You may as well just toss a coin. Sorry I can't be more helpful. There is a lot at stake with this one and I have been on the other side of a situation like this. As a former officer, I would fully expect to go to court and the magistrate believe everything I said, have notes in my book and make the party on trial look a bit silly. Whether the officers you are dealing with are this strict with their attention to detail, is anyone's guess..!! H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 In fact that's a very good point H. The officers will have notes, which they get you to sign as a statement. Surely that will contradict what they say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattP Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Police Officers little pocket notebooks are a joke if an officer is capable of fabricating circumstances of an arrest they are perfectly capable of writing in their pocket book and dating it after the alleged offence took place. they are no more valuable than the suspect writing notes and sign dating them in his/her cell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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