Guest Ash-IV Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Good morning all, I've recently noticed an issue with my MKIV. When I start up I get a hell of a lot of white smoke out of the back. The two times I've driven it, it has literally whited out the entire area I'm in. It smacks of head gasket... only there is an issue. It only lasts around a minute or two after start up, and disappears afterwards. It doesn't even wait until the engine is warm, its like water is "building up" somewhere when its sat, then during the first few minutes it gets burnt off. Then its completely fine, no issue at all. It runs okay, doesn't seem down on power... So I'm puzzled. I'm yet to check my water level as for some reason beyond me (please feel free to explain if you know) I don't have a plastic filler or level on my rad, just the cap which can only be topped up until full. So I couldn't check yesterday as car was still hot. Any ideas on what could be causing this? Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Has it been raining ? And what exhaust do you have ? The expansion tank is between the radiator and the bumper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 First thing to do is decide if it's smoke or steam. White SMOKE is either antifreeze burning, or brake fluid. Steam is (obviously...) water being heated. Coolant being heated can give both if it has anti freeze in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ash-IV Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 First thing to do is decide if it's smoke or steam. White SMOKE is either antifreeze burning, or brake fluid. Steam is (obviously...) water being heated. Coolant being heated can give both if it has anti freeze in it. I'll try this tonight and see what results I get, I suppose the best way to test is to go to the back of the car when its running and put my hand there and smell it? Has it been raining ? And what exhaust do you have ? The expansion tank is between the radiator and the bumper. Yeah its been raining a far bit around here at the moment, the exhaust I have is standard apart from a Blitz back box. Ah yes I have that expansion tank, but the rad is a "custom built" ali thing, and the previous owner didn't plumb the tank back in, its just sat there empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Is there a small diameter hose coming off the rad filler neck ? the expansion tank should connect to that, your system needs this tank to work correctly If the white smoke is as bad as you say then it sounds like its antifreeze burning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Steam condenses to water on a cold surface like a sheet of cold metal, or a cold piece of glass. Smoke doers not. Steam disappears very rapidly in the area near the exhaust. Smoke hangs around for quite a long time. The water has to come from somewhere, is the overflow tank or the rad losing water? Is the car using brake fluid? I did have a customer who swore blind the exhaust of his car was blowing white smoke. After countless e-mails he brought it in. It was immediately apparent it was blue smoke, even from one end of the drive to the gate. He still swore it was white, but looking at his somewhat eccentric colour shirt and socks I concluded he was probably colour blind Stem seals sorted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If in doubt get someone to fire it up whilst you stand near the exhaust, if it's smoke or burning oil you will be easily able to smell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ash-IV Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Is there a small diameter hose coming off the rad filler neck ? the expansion tank should connect to that, your system needs this tank to work correctly If the white smoke is as bad as you say then it sounds like its antifreeze burning I'll have a look tonight and see what exactly has been done and try to figure it out. Steam condenses to water on a cold surface like a sheet of cold metal, or a cold piece of glass. Smoke doers not. Steam disappears very rapidly in the area near the exhaust. Smoke hangs around for quite a long time. The water has to come from somewhere, is the overflow tank or the rad losing water? Is the car using brake fluid? I did have a customer who swore blind the exhaust of his car was blowing white smoke. After countless e-mails he brought it in. It was immediately apparent it was blue smoke, even from one end of the drive to the gate. He still swore it was white, but looking at his somewhat eccentric colour shirt and socks I concluded he was probably colour blind Stem seals sorted it. I'll double check all this tonight and hopefully it will yield some results. If in doubt get someone to fire it up whilst you stand near the exhaust, if it's smoke or burning oil you will be easily able to smell it. Good point, i'll give this a go. Cheers guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slink116 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I get it with my NA, i have noticed it only happened with its cold and wet, I do believe it's steam, because if it's smoke it smells and it'll linger a bit longer in the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ash-IV Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I get it with my NA, i have noticed it only happened with its cold and wet, I do believe it's steam, because if it's smoke it smells and it'll linger a bit longer in the air. True but I've never had anything like this before. I pulled out of a car park after leaving it for about 20 minutes and it was pouring out. I parked it at my parents about 15 minutes later, left it for about 30 minutes. Then when I drove off you could even see down the road it was that bad. 5 minutes later, fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slink116 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I do have the same issue, maybe there is a problem with our cars, but I'm pretty certain it's not smoke coming out the exhaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ash-IV Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I do have the same issue, maybe there is a problem with our cars, but I'm pretty certain it's not smoke coming out the exhaust. I'll look into it in more depth tonight mate and I'll let you know what I find and we can see the best way to move forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ash-IV Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Okay I've just had a look (albeit in the dark). I'm struggling to decide if it's smoke or steam at the moment although it's very apparent its burning water, the level has dropped considerably since about a month ago. I'm guessing this is the prelude to head gasket failure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Without a functioning overflow tank the level will drop. As I said something like a cold mirror or piece of metal held 2 feet or so from the exhaust exit will show if it's water vapour or smoke. Burning anti freeze or brake fluid have distinctive smells, you'd know something was being burnt. Same with oil... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ash-IV Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Without a functioning overflow tank the level will drop. As I said something like a cold mirror or piece of metal held 2 feet or so from the exhaust exit will show if it's water vapour or smoke. Burning anti freeze or brake fluid have distinctive smells, you'd know something was being burnt. Same with oil... I've just checked my brake fluid and it's full, doesn't seem to have dropped at all. The only smell coming from the wisps of white smoke seems to be exhaust gases, so I did the mirror test and it condensed on the surface. Certainly looks like water vapour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I'd fix the overflow tank piping and top up rad to full and overflow tank to the mark, and run the car for a few days and see if it uses water. Does it do any long runs, say 200 miles plus on the motorway? It may be washing or wind driven rain has caused water to accumulate in the r=exhaust and it needs a good run to dry it out. It could of course also be engine issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ash-IV Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I'd fix the overflow tank piping and top up rad to full and overflow tank to the mark, and run the car for a few days and see if it uses water. Does it do any long runs, say 200 miles plus on the motorway? It may be washing or wind driven rain has caused water to accumulate in the r=exhaust and it needs a good run to dry it out. It could of course also be engine issues. I'll sort the rad tonight, then use it for a few days and come back with what happens. I probably use the car to do around 30 miles on a Saturday and 30 miles on a Sunday, then it sits for a week. This has been the way for about 3 months now, but the issue only happened on Sunday. Before that, nothing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 My experience of head gasket failures on 2JZ engines have always been on N/A GE engines. The laminated gasket often splits between the top and bottom shims, in other words one of the interim shims splits. It can be impossible to see without un-rivetting the gasket layers and splitting them apart. Let's hope it's just condensation from a wet exhaust. If it uses no coolant you can probably assume that's the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ash-IV Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Okay I've had a little play and here's an update, I had to put 2.5L of water in to fill it back up, admittedly about 1l of that was the empty tank. But I took it out of a spin yesterday, only a few miles and it didn't smoke at all, not a bit. So it looks like it could have just been water in the pipe, but level had dropped :-S. I have however noticed the "mayonnaise" on the oil cap, though I've heard there a few reasons that can appear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Wipe the gunge off, and see if it reappears. It's common though on engines that rarely get up to full oil temperature for sustained periods of time. Can't you take it on a decent run, a few hundred miles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Your car has all the same symptoms as the wife's na did earlier in the year. I trained her to check the water level daily and in desperation to keep it going a bit longer until the weather improved I poured a bottle of that luminous yellow "head gasket repair" stuff in. To my amazement it was fine for about another 2 months and didn't use a drop of coolant, cured the white smoke, no mayo, heater started to work again it was great.... Until one morning following a long drive the day before she went to start it and the timing belt stripped all its teeth because the inlet cam had seized solid or so i thought. After pulling the top end apart I discovered one of the valves had locked up and wouldn't open until I gave it a wack. I suspect the crap I put in as a short term fix although worked got into the valve seat and then did what it was meant to and formed a steel like seal. Anyhow I had a stripped na engine here that had stood for 4 years exposed to the elements, swapped all the parts over spent a long weekend getting it in and its been great since, that was Easter. I noticed though that the dead engine that lays in my garden now has water marks running down the block on the jnlet side of the block coming from.the gasket. So I guess the moral of the story is, don't leave it too long and don't be tempted to use the head gasket repair medicine unless you are prepared for the consequences. After the experience with her NA my money is on the head gasket with yours I am afraid. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=199471&d=1428055057 Edited December 9, 2015 by Shane added picture courtesy of Mr P (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ash-IV Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Cheers for the feedback guys. I'll do just that Chris. Shane I'll start saving! And use it as little as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Until one morning following a long drive the day before she went to start it and the timing belt stripped all its teeth because the inlet cam had seized solid or so i thought. After pulling the top end apart I discovered one of the valves had locked up and wouldn't open until I gave it a wack. I suspect the crap I put in as a short term fix although worked got into the valve seat and then did what it was meant to and formed a steel like seal. Common (ish). Steam / condensation condenses on the valve and rusts the stem to the guide. Next start valve won't move, cam belt cries enough. Probably nothing to do with the sealant gunk. Did you take the head off the one with the stuck valve and examine the gasket Shane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Common (ish). Steam / condensation condenses on the valve and rusts the stem to the guide. Next start valve won't move, cam belt cries enough. Probably nothing to do with the sealant gunk. Did you take the head off the one with the stuck valve and examine the gasket Shane? No Chris, it's on my ever increasing list of things to do. However, over a period of time since its been in its place of rest various members have had bits from it and its getting smaller. I am hoping that if I hold out long enough someone will come along and pull the head off for me, the wife often comments how ornate it looks dumped right by the back gate. You can see where the coolant had been seeping out of the gasket and down the block from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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