Tyson Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Over the past week the car has been getting harder to start which I put down to the colder weather being a diesel but it has gotten significantly worse. When it does get started it kicks out loads of blue smoke and runs lumpy until I give it a few blips of the throttle when it returns to normal, it's using oil which I am going to monitor to see how much it's using. Subsequent starts when the engine is warm are fine. It's an 06 1.4tdci fiesta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesmark Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Interesting as my wife's fiesta does the same, everything except using of oil. Same year and same cc. Hers has 92k miles on her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 Mines got 119k on it and it's still under warranty so I'll take it back I think. Not the first problem I've had and they were less than helpful last time and didn't want to know. It'll be another fight to sort I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 It will be the injector o ring leaking , so it loses fuel preasure . Happend on my 03 model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 EGR valve. Blank the fecker off and it'll start no problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjy Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 It will be the injector o ring leaking , so it loses fuel preasure . Happend on my 03 model That. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Bit of a coincidence that it's as the winter comes in (when the EGR needs to be closed the most) so I would still say EGR before injector seals. Easy to check, unbolt the EGR valve, stick in a bit of cardboard, bolt it back on and start the car. If it fires no problem it's the EGR valve. Get a blanking plate and forget about it, if it still struggles then it'll be the injector seals. As a sidenote, IIRC it's the EGR valves that kill the injector seals also as the intake temperature ends up really high causing issues with the injectors. It's a huge problem on the Mondeo's (my model). When I had exactly the same winter issue that you describe I always assumed the worst and thought it was new injectors, seals and coding required (approx £600). Tried the cardboard trick... it worked so I purchased the blank off of ebay for £4 posted. That was 5 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjy Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Fiesta injector seals fail because of a leaky cam cover. The oil seeps down the side of the injectors and carbonises from heat cycling and lifts the injector off its seat. EGR shouldn't cause starting problems. Problems once started, yes. Running rough until it's had a bootfull of throttle is also indicative of air leaking into the fuel system. The high pressure from the rail at WOT sort of bleeds the fuel system. In all honesty Mike, just take it back. Seems as if you've bought a car that's previously been a bit unloved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 EGR on our mondeo stopped it from starting. Read loads of issues exactly the same, all in the winter. EGR stuck open wouldn't let it start.... not entirely sure of the chemical reason why though We didn't have a problem till we hit november. That was back in 2010 though. If I took my blanking plate off now the car wouldn't start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I sometimes wonder what the real world MPG savings of a diesel are, offset against the horrendous issues and repair costs I see talked of regularly. I can't remember when I last lifted the bonnet on my petrol engined Volvo, nor when I last did anything other than put tyres on it. Yet if I had to go to the south of France tomorrow it is the car I would pick to get me there and back with no issues. Value? £500 absolute tops... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjy Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I sometimes wonder what the real world MPG savings of a diesel are, offset against the horrendous issues and repair costs I see talked of regularly. I can't remember when I last lifted the bonnet on my petrol engined Volvo, nor when I last did anything other than put tyres on it. Yet if I had to go to the south of France tomorrow it is the car I would pick to get me there and back with no issues. Value? £500 absolute tops... Diesels are a pig. £150 per injector minimum. DPF's, fuel pumps... I went on a seminar a year or so ago and the only thing I learned was that I didn't want to be doing this job in 10 years time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 My 1994 80 series 4.2 TDi Landcruiser was faultless and had 185,000 miles on it when I sold it, my 55 plate 3.0 D4D Landcruiser had a recall to replace injector seals, I sold it with a noisy head and had only got 70,000 on it !! I won't be buying modern diesel unless its brand new and under manufactures warranty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Seems when the went to high pressure direct injection torque and economy went upwards beautifully, but all this is offset by huge repair costs. These things are great under warranty, for the high mileage user, or until they go wrong out of warranty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Fiesta injector seals fail because of a leaky cam cover. The oil seeps down the side of the injectors and carbonises from heat cycling and lifts the injector off its seat. EGR shouldn't cause starting problems. Problems once started, yes. Running rough until it's had a bootfull of throttle is also indicative of air leaking into the fuel system. The high pressure from the rail at WOT sort of bleeds the fuel system. In all honesty Mike, just take it back. Seems as if you've bought a car that's previously been a bit unloved. What are my rights if I take it back ? How much money can I get ? What I paid for it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Do I have to accept a repair ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Do I have to accept a repair ? Depends how long you have had it and if it has had multiple problems since you bought it. I have a 2005 Toyota Avensis 2.0D and I hardly give it any love but with 130k on the clock, just keeps on going! Even freezing temperates! You need some Japanese Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 Four months Abz and yes I need to rethink my choice. The swift went on for ever too !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 They say it's not burning any more oil than they would expect for a car of that age and mileage so 0.25 litres every 20 miles is normal ????? They told me to video the problem and show them as it didn't do it when they had it ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjy Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Get an independent garage to do a report for you. Then contact trading standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Will do benjy, will get my dads friends garage to have a look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 So just to recap, Struggles to start Rough idle on start up Boot full of throttle returns idle to normal Cloud of blue smoke after bootfull then no more visible smoke Subsequent start ups are fine until left for a while when start is difficult again but less so than the original start up unless left for a long period of time. Do we still think injectors ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 So just to recap, Struggles to start Rough idle on start up Boot full of throttle returns idle to normal Cloud of blue smoke after bootfull then no more visible smoke Subsequent start ups are fine until left for a while when start is difficult again but less so than the original start up unless left for a long period of time. Do we still think injectors ? This maybe the model that the fuel pump when tired starts to produce tiny iron filings and then a) struggles to produce enough fuel pressure from cold meaning that the pressure sensor never sees enough pressure to tell the ecu to start firing and b) gradually fills the fuel system up with iron filings, killing the injectors in the longer term. Would be interested to know if it starts straight away with a sniff of easy start from cold, what this does is get the engine speed up to a point where the pump produces enough pressure for the sensor to send the correct signal to the ecu. They recommend that you slit the bottom of the fuel filter with a sharp knife and empty the contents into a clear container and hold it up to the light looking for iron filings. Delphi fuel injection systems on some Renaults and Kias also suffer this but I know a colleague of mine at work had a ford that had the same problem and he discovered it was very common with that engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 They say it's not burning any more oil than they would expect for a car of that age and mileage so 0.25 litres every 20 miles is normal ????? They told me to video the problem and show them as it didn't do it when they had it ....... 1 litre of oil in under 100 miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Sorted a mates 08 1.4tdci fiesta earlier today, was running really bad. Read the engine code, MAF sensor fault, sure enough no output from sensor, checked the sensor and a wire had broken, crimped it back together job done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Sorted a mates 08 1.4tdci fiesta earlier today, was running really bad. Read the engine code, MAF sensor fault, sure enough no output from sensor, checked the sensor and a wire had broken, crimped it back together job done Thread hijack, but was there a fault code showing on the dash (engine MIL, etc) before you did this? I'm curious about how severe a problem needs to be before it illuminates the MIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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