The Islamist attack in Paris 13-11-15

[imi]

I agree that I doubt that these attacks are directly related to the current migrant crisis.

 

But unfortunately these migrants will contribute to the problem. The majority of these migrants are young men, many of whom are economic migrants. When they settle in the West, they will discover that Europe isn't the goldmine they were expecting, as unemployment on the mainland is terrible at the moment. Many will become part of closed off sub communities in the suburbs of the major cities, some will turn to crime, and others will turn to extremism.

 

This is in addition to the extremists who are already coming over. If the estimates of 8000 migrants per day are true, i think it's safe to assume that annually, several hundred or even thousands of those will be extremists.

 

There is also the matter of the now indefensible Schengen free travel area. People can buy guns in Bulgaria, and drive to Paris without a single border check. This is completely unacceptable.

 

Glad we are an island.....

[imi]

There was proof he had weapons of mass destruction.

 

Hasn't the govt already admitted that there was no proof and the entire saga of WOMD was doctored?

[imi]

If he was still around, Kuwait probably wouldn't for starters..

 

why were we so eager to save the Kuwaitis? why the special allegiance to them while hundreds of thousands of iraqis, syrians and others have been allowed to perish?

 

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I think the US and UK have caused enough problems don't you think.

 

Plus we have to supply the ISIS with weapons, after all they are on our side to get rid of Assad right.

 

Not forgetting we were best buddies with Saddam, Gaddafi, Bin Laden, Assad at one point... what is happening in the background we have no idea about. Though one thing I can tell for certain is that all this terrorism that has appeared suddenly is perfect for fear mongering and ensuring you have a population of fear and hatred. Perfect way to both control the mindsets of people and make them do as you please as this is for your own safety.

 

Whilst all these people are blaming religion, I just want to remind you ISIS have killed over 100,000 MUSLIMS in the last couple of years. Think of that figure for a second whilst you think of what happened in Paris. They do not care about what you think or say, they are out there like Russell mentioned to create this hatred and split and they are doing a damn good job of it. We give these guys SO much air time and we constantly bang on about them and how we should all be scared of them and that they are going to kill us all. As a Muslim I should be more afraid than most, as if ISIS won't kill me it will be someone in the security forces who thinks I am one of them but am I scared? Not the slightest, I don't have time for that.

 

Good post

[Kendo11]

Edit, will come back to this.

[Al Massey]

Hasn't the govt already admitted that there was no proof and the entire saga of WOMD was doctored?

 

They admitted things were omitted.

 

As I said people think that WMD means nuclear weapons so they don't care about anything else.

Why should they, they enjoy their bubble of freedom.

why were we so eager to save the Kuwaitis? why the special allegiance to them while hundreds of thousands of iraqis, syrians and others have been allowed to perish?

 

Think you've missed the point of going into Iraq.

 

You think we went in to attack the Iraqis?

 

And didn't Syria rebels already have allies and a presence whereas Iraq and Kuwait had none.

 

Again I'll ask you, since not one of you will ever say.

 

What do you expect us to do?

Sit around with a thumb up our arses then you can cry and moan when shit like this happens or do you actually want something done?

 

Because as soon as we do you bitch and moan, and as soon as we don't you bitch and moan.

 

So what is the purpose?

The end goal?

Or shall we just leave terrorism alone to do what they want in those lands that aren't ours, while they kill and torture innocent people?

[Frank Bullitt]

A sign of things to come?

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/555434/Islamic-State-ISIS-Smuggler-THOUSANDS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees

[Kendo11]

They admitted things were omitted.

 

As I said people think that WMD means nuclear weapons so they don't care about anything else.

Why should they, they enjoy their bubble of freedom.

 

 

Think you've missed the point of going into Iraq.

 

You think we went in to attack the Iraqis?

 

And didn't Syria rebels already have allies and a presence whereas Iraq and Kuwait had none.

 

Again I'll ask you, since not one of you will ever say.

 

What do you expect us to do?

Sit around with a thumb up our arses then you can cry and moan when shit like this happens or do you actually want something done?

 

Because as soon as we do you bitch and moan, and as soon as we don't you bitch and moan.

 

So what is the purpose?

The end goal?

Or shall we just leave terrorism alone to do what they want in those lands that aren't ours, while they kill and torture innocent people?

So, just say an order is given by the usual coalition (UK, US, France) and troops go in big time and join the specials that are already over there.

 

What's the endgame?

 

Wipe out isis, then what? Which of the tens if not hundreds of groups does Obama hand the baton to? Or does he leave Assad in charge so he can continue dropping barrel bombs on civilians shopping at their local market?

 

Do we go after Assad too, and effectively participate in a coup?

 

What does Putin have to say about this since he's firmly sided with Assad and is contributing to killing civilians?

 

What does Saudi Arabia have to say about this since they're funding & supplying isis and getting resources in return? And Turkey, considering they're letting isis pass through unchecked, do we go into Turkey too?

 

What happens when Russia drop one of their rusty old unguided bombs on a coalition squad of soldiers?

 

How do we prevent another group springing up in place of isis as isis has from aq?

 

Absolutely no dig intended Al, just wondering what people's thoughts are.

 

To me, it's almost beyond a solution.

 

Isis have at least lost a few battles & key personnel recently though.

[Graham1984]

A sign of things to come?

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/555434/Islamic-State-ISIS-Smuggler-THOUSANDS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees

 

It's more scaremongering IMO. It doesn't matter if they are here or not- terrorists exist everywhere in different guises.

 

Attacks happen to various degree's, and always have over the course of human history, and the more fear these arseholes think they strike into us the happier they are. We can't be scared, as frankly there are always dangers out there in multiple forms.

 

Regardless of our varying political views on what our armed forces should or shouldn't do is irrelevant- all I personally feel is sympathy for the innocent victims/families that get caught up in either the event itself, or the casualties of our various soldiers etc that get sent to the next hell hole to enforce peace so we can all moan about this & that from the safety of our homes.

[Guest Based]

I don't believe in the political system and I don't believe in any religion but I am fucking pissed off that so many mass shootings have been going on all over the world lately... Fucking people dude... Why the fuck can't people just live in peace with others?

[The Raven]

You're also forgetting the chemical weapons he used in his own country on the Kurds.

 

And if you think he wasn't a threat to us you're mistaken.

But what he was was a bully and a threat to many defenceless people.

 

Should we just sit by and do nothing?

 

With that understanding, we should let Isis do what they hell they want if they are not a threat to us.

 

 

And as you quote simply put it, everyone knew he had chemical weapons.

Guess what, chemical weapons, which are banned under the Geneva convention are a weapon of mass destruction.

 

But wait, you said there were none.

 

So which is it?

 

I didnt forget i mentioned that bush snr told the them to rise up then stood and did nothing when saddam gased them after the first gulf war. 13 years pasted before "we stepped in to topple him" Or destroy his WMDs or what ever the reason is now.

sles

 

The public where told Saddam was a threat to the UK and the US

 

Even Blair has said this

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/25/tony-blair-sorry-iraq-war-mistakes-admits-conflict-role-in-rise-of-isis

 

There are rumours that paper work was ordered to be burnt

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3298498/Burn-destroy-Pressure-builds-Blair-Chilcot-report-s-revealed-ministers-told-destroy-key-evidence-eve-conflict-showed-Iraq-War-ILLEGAL.html

 

 

You have to smell a stinking rat in all that

[imi]

They admitted things were omitted.

 

As I said people think that WMD means nuclear weapons so they don't care about anything else.

Why should they, they enjoy their bubble of freedom.

 

 

Think you've missed the point of going into Iraq.

 

You think we went in to attack the Iraqis?

 

And didn't Syria rebels already have allies and a presence whereas Iraq and Kuwait had none.

 

Again I'll ask you, since not one of you will ever say.

 

What do you expect us to do?

Sit around with a thumb up our arses then you can cry and moan when $#@! like this happens or do you actually want something done?

 

Because as soon as we do you bitch and moan, and as soon as we don't you bitch and moan.

 

So what is the purpose?

The end goal?

Or shall we just leave terrorism alone to do what they want in those lands that aren't ours, while they kill and torture innocent people?

 

You're right - I have missed the point of all of this cause from where I am standing it looks like a bloodbath that we have contributed to in a major scale since 1990. And the world is a much more dangerous place today as a result of it

 

Back to my question

 

Why the special treatment for the Kuwaitis?

 

Wasn't saddam one of our own (US CIA) why take him out?

[kjgreen3]

Wasn't he getting a British firm to build him a giant gun that was capable of firing projectiles into space?

 

Actually I think that was the first gulf war.

 

Yes a firm in Sheffield had the tender, If you know where to look you can see part of the huge pipes (rusting away) that were to be used in the construction of the huge barrel. I think an initial payment was made and construction started, but the gun was never to be completed as the Gulf war took off soon after.

[Chris Wilson]

If you are interested, and it's a subject I found fascinating at the time, Google:

 

Forgemasters

Gerald Bull

Project Babylon

 

It faltered at the last minute thanks to someone on the ball at the Department of Trade and Industry wondering just what sort of "oil pipeline" needed a super internal finish with mega thick walls.

 

 

You might notice the huge amounts of money the UK governments have poured into the place, some officials have declared, anonymously, that the whole affair stank, and spoke of complicity and cover ups. Make up your own minds.

 

On a technical level Forgemasters have the ability to forge the largest single piece forgings in Europe and came close to finding finance for a press that was several orders of magnitude bigger than that they currently use. They have close ties to the nuclear industry as well as armaments and space industries.

[j_jza80]

The 'European President' has spoken...

 

“One has to see that those who organized these attacks and those that perpetrated them are exactly those that the refugees are fleeing and not the opposite,” said Mr. Juncker, a staunch defender of the bloc’s open-border and asylum rules. “As a result there are no grounds to revise Europe’s policies on the matter of refugees.”

 

Mr. Juncker said he didn’t have any detailed information on the identity of the Paris attackers, but that terrorists shouldn’t be put on equal footing with legitimate refugees.

 

“I don’t believe that the individual in question can be categorized as a refugee or an asylum seeker,” he said. “I believe that in his case we’re dealing with a migrant who abused of the procedures.”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/eu-leaders-seek-coordination-against-isis-after-paris-attacks-1447581670

 

And seemingly, his response is more of the same. He is putting his ideological agenda above the safety of European citizens.

 

And i'd love to know exactly what "Europe's policies" on refugees are? As far as I can tell, it's been Germany and Sweden giving an invite to the world, and the rest of the continent left to suffer the consequences. Tens of thousands are traveling across Europe without any sort of background check, being allowed to settle pretty much wherever they like, with no thought being given about how to integrate them.

 

Who voted for this man? I can't remember being given a choice, doesn't that constitute a dictatorship?

[Chris Wilson]

Another left wing social experiment gone disastrously wrong, with honest indigenous citizens left to finance and bear the brunt of this invasion. At least Hungary had the sense to shrug off the critics and close her borders. As for Sweden, they have voted in a Liberal elite for umpteen years running, let them wallow in self aggrandisement and give up their summer homes and factories to housing this rabble. It's hard to find sympathy for those who hold up welcome banners to what will, undoubtedly, be a soon hostile mob thanking their "saviours" with crime, rape and riots, if not well orchestrated murder. I never would have imagined seeing such scenes in my lifetime, anyone with young kids should be very very worried. And it's so easy to stop, given governments with some proper metal, and some true Statesmen. But has it already gone too far to stop...?

[Kendo11]

Chris, some of the things you say I completely and utterly disagree with.

 

But on that last point I do agree.

 

I think it's been horrendously mismanaged (makes it sound so trivial) by our leaders from day one.

 

I too worry it may have gone too far (much like the situation in the ground on the Syria) to rectify.

[Abz]

If you are interested, and it's a subject I found fascinating at the time, Google:

 

Forgemasters

Gerald Bull

Project Babylon

 

It faltered at the last minute thanks to someone on the ball at the Department of Trade and Industry wondering just what sort of "oil pipeline" needed a super internal finish with mega thick walls.

 

You might notice the huge amounts of money the UK governments have poured into the place, some officials have declared, anonymously, that the whole affair stank, and spoke of complicity and cover ups. Make up your own minds.

 

On a technical level Forgemasters have the ability to forge the largest single piece forgings in Europe and came close to finding finance for a press that was several orders of magnitude bigger than that they currently use. They have close ties to the nuclear industry as well as armaments and space industries.

 

Interesting reading up re that Chris, especially re Gerald Bull and his assassination. Just a glimpse into some of the things that happen in the background.

 

We are just the pawn in a big chess game, politics are being played with people's lives.

[Chris Wilson]

All common sense seems to have left the governments of Europe, a situation I find lemming like, and one has to wonder if they are totally bereft of answers and cohesive strategies. Schengen is effectively finished and the Union needs to accept this. A few more appalling situations like we have just witnessed occurring in Paris and I can see the far Right gaining (quite understandably) in power and anarchy breaking out.

[Kendo11]

Interesting reading up re that Chris, especially re Gerald Bull and his assassination. Just a glimpse into some of the things that happen in the background.

 

We are just the pawn in a big chess game, politics are being played with people's lives.

Chess is spot on, financial chess in particular.

 

Throughout every war or conflict in history there are groups behind the scenes that often go unmentioned who are getting very, very rich regardless of who wins or loses.

[Kendo11]

From a little while ago but well worth a read.

 

Fairly long so possibly best when you've got 5 minutes.

 

http://20committee.com/2014/09/11/defeating-the-islamic-state-a-how-to-guide/

[mellonman]

There was something goinv down a few minutes ago in paris ago live on the news, gun shots again

[Kendo11]

No gunshots, false alarm.

[bignum]

This is the latest, http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/france-drops-20-bombs-islamic-6838318

[Kendo11]

This is the latest, http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/france-drops-20-bombs-islamic-6838318

 

Tweet from raqqa hospital claiming NO civilians injured. Although how uninvolved they are with isis is down to perception.

 

French aircraft carrier also leaving for the region in 2 days, 20 fighter bombers on board.

 

Turkey currently bombing the ypg also, who happen to be one of the most effective anti-isis ground forces at the moment.

 

Couldn't make it up.

[Abz]

Turkey currently bombing the ypg also, who happen to be one of the most effective anti-isis ground forces at the moment.

 

Couldn't make it up.

 

Where did you find out about Turkey bombing YPG? Not seen reports yet online.

 

This is a good video on RT News if you have 10 mins to spare.

 

Reminder what I mentioned earlier about installing fear in a population. You only have to watch the BBC report earlier where firecrackers going off caused people to panic and run for it causing people pushing and shoving each other and breaking a whole load of things in the process. Understandably considering what happen in the last 48 hours but if you have enough fear then people will do anything for a comfort blanket.