The Islamist attack in Paris 13-11-15

[The Raven]

When people say close borders they don't mean lock every border up and have a full ban on everything entering or exiting the country.

 

They mean close the borders to immigration.

 

Which is actually a fair observation from certain points

 

Thats what they want to say yee, but most people said it in the "close our borders" was hence why it fails

 

If you read the link Chris posted the petition was

 

Stop all immigration and close the UK borders until ISIS is defeated

 

To which the government went " er no we need to be able to leave the country and allow trade" two totally different demands lumped together by stupid people that dont know the difference, if they had tried the first one on its own it may have got somewhere.

 

My facebook was full of "close our borders now!" crap until i posted the definition of that act. Stop immigration and closing borders are two totally separate things and shouldn't be confused

 

When people say supra, they mean celica.

[Kendo11]

Oops.

 

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/gun-linked-to-paris-attacks-traced-back-to-florida-arms-dealer-implicated-in-iran-contra-scandal/#.VmsWel6o1Yk.twitter

[Al Massey]

Thats what they want to say yee, but most people said it in the "close our borders" was hence why it fails

 

If you read the link Chris posted the petition was

 

Stop all immigration and close the UK borders until ISIS is defeated

 

To which the government went " er no we need to be able to leave the country and allow trade" two totally different demands lumped together by stupid people that dont know the difference, if they had tried the first one on its own it may have got somewhere.

 

My facebook was full of "close our borders now!" crap until i posted the definition of that act. Stop immigration and closing borders are two totally separate things and shouldn't be confused

 

When people say supra, they mean celica.

 

It's the same when people cry saying we are bombing Syria.

We shouldn't bomb Syria.

Stop bombing Syria blah blah blah

 

No we are bombing IN Syria.

 

Some would argue it's semantics.

 

Just like close the borders maybe?

[The Raven]

It's the same when people cry saying we are bombing Syria.

We shouldn't bomb Syria.

Stop bombing Syria blah blah blah

 

No we are bombing IN Syria.

 

Some would argue it's semantics.

 

Just like close the borders maybe?

 

Yup when people hear we are bombing syria some think we are just carpet bombing the country, not surgically striking at isis,

[imi]

Yup when people hear we are bombing syria some think we are just carpet bombing the country, not surgically striking at isis,

 

Judging by the results of our interventions in the middle east over the past 25 years I am not surprised that many people take the above with a pinch of salt, if that.

 

Let alone solving the problem I fear that the actions will simply make things worse down the line.

 

Oh well - I don't believe that we have muppets in-charge - on the contrary they are super smart and have ulterior motives - like I have mentioned already.

[imi]

Actually this alternative UK Government petition is seeing very strong support, but funnily enough the BBC don't seem to have mentioned a word about it, unlike every news bulletin and Liberally hosted chat show mawing over the ban Trump petition http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/images/smilies/xmas/smile.gif Given the man has a very realistic chance of becoming the next US president it would be ludicrous to ban him from the UK, hasty, and churlish and diplomatically potentially disastrous, should you feel he's said or done anything worthy of a travel ban. Hell, the son of a Rochdale councillor has been brought back from Syria after attempting to join IS fighters and is roaming the streets of his northern home town, free as a bird.

 

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/107516

 

 

It has nearly 450,000 signatures as of a moment ago:

 

Stop all immigration and close the UK borders until ISIS is defeated is the title.

 

On BBC's Question Time it was mooted that 25% of the UK population are in support of Donald Trump's ban immigration stance, but I fail to see how this figure could be researched in such a short time, maybe they were using the above poll? Given it is to show support for banning *ALL* immigration temporarily, it does also encompass banning all *MUSLIM* immigration. Had Trump had the sense to word his speech as to ban *ALL* immigration it would have been less controversial, yet if followed up would have the same effect.

 

 

Best regards,

Chris Wilson.

 

Agree with more stringent border control - need to get our house in order first as supposed to pissing on a fire in a remote country creating even more problems.

 

I wasn't aware of the Rochdale councillor son's situation - surprised that this hasn't made the news in a big way - or perhaps I've missed it.

 

Like I have said before there is radicalisation under way within the UK - we are actually creating and exporting terrorist and unless we don't address the root causes of this we will never get rid of this evil

 

 

Nov 2015 - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3329570/Son-Labour-councillor-suspected-extremist-arrested-Syrian-border-Britain-walking-streets-Rochdale.html

absolutely shocking.........why do we pretend that we are serious about clamping down on terrorists when we allow them to walk free.

A Rochdale neighbour, 73, said: ‘It is a disgrace. His father is a councillor and represents the people of Rochdale yet he has a son who’d clearly like us all dead. It is outrageous that he should be allowed to walk the streets, grinning from ear to ear, as if it was some great adventure or a lark.’

Around 700 Britons have thought to have travelled to join IS including teenage girls.

 

Around 450 have returned home. Police say the returnees pose a significant threat yet only a handful have been prosecuted. Instead they are being referred to the Government’s Prevent strategy which aims to deradicalise extremists and change their thinking.

 

so who's exporting terrorism?

[imi]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35085957

 

Mr Aamer has said he wants an apology from the US government over his treatment. He has also called for the UK government to hold an "open and transparent" inquiry into allegations that the UK was complicit in torture.

 

Seems logical and very little to ask.....

[Shane]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35085957

 

Mr Aamer has said he wants an apology from the US government over his treatment. He has also called for the UK government to hold an "open and transparent" inquiry into allegations that the UK was complicit in torture.

 

Seems logical and very little to ask.....

 

Yet he was in Afghanistan in 2001 and the only reference in that article you chose to post as to why he was there was "He has said he was in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan in 2001 to make a better life for his family." Speaking as someone who spent time in Kandahar, NWFP, Kuchlak and Quetta during 2001, and seeing he was from Saudi, I find it incredibly hard to stomach that his stay there was for family reasons unless he is referring to his extended family, normally referred to as brotherhood.

 

At least he has spoken out it appears against extremism but I am sure the desire to be released and re-united with his family had no bearing on this. Yes he has been treated in an appalling way and for too long, but I am sure there is more to this than the BBC news or any other news agency reports. Are there any news reports that explain in a bit more detail why he would have left his wife and family here and travel to the region at that time? Maybe he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time eh.

[imi]

Yet he was in Afghanistan in 2001 and the only reference in that article you chose to post as to why he was there was "He has said he was in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan in 2001 to make a better life for his family." Speaking as someone who spent time in Kandahar, NWFP, Kuchlak and Quetta during 2001, and seeing he was from Saudi, I find it incredibly hard to stomach that his stay there was for family reasons unless he is referring to his extended family, normally referred to as brotherhood.

 

At least he has spoken out it appears against extremism but I am sure the desire to be released and re-united with his family had no bearing on this. Yes he has been treated in an appalling way and for too long, but I am sure there is more to this than the BBC news or any other news agency reports. Are there any news reports that explain in a bit more detail why he would have left his wife and family here and travel to the region at that time? Maybe he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time eh.

 

At the end of the day - if he was guilty then they should have prosecuted him (and many others like him) - the fact is that he was illegally detained & tortured for many years for which the least they can do is apologise.

 

some more details on this story

[Pete]

This thread keeps confusing me, every time it pops to the top I think there's been another incident in France.

 

Around 700 Britons have thought to have travelled to join IS including teenage girls.

 

Why do they keep highlighting the "Teenage Girls" - are they to be feared far more than the others due to their raging hormones and irrationality?

 

Maybe we should form an army of teenage girls.

[Chris Wilson]

How long before we admit Turkey is not a desirable NATO member, nor a potential EU member? Seems the Russians are having a bit of boating trouble at the moment... Given how we seem unable to deal with returning jihadists it doesn't bode well for how we might deal with a bellicose and belligerent fellow NATO member state.

[j_jza80]

This thread keeps confusing me, every time it pops to the top I think there's been another incident in France.

 

Sorry thread title dated and amended.

[Pete]

How long before we admit Turkey is not a desirable NATO member, nor a potential EU member?

 

Any Greek will tell you that. They feckin' hate them in Rhodes. A friend of mine is ex special forces and says he couldn't ever go to Turkey as he'd get locked up and asked far too many questions as to why he's there. That's what makes Cyprus such an interesting place, I reckon they've been at war since before pens let people write about it.

[Shane]

At the end of the day - if he was guilty then they should have prosecuted him (and many others like him) - the fact is that he was illegally detained & tortured for many years for which the least they can do is apologise.

 

some more details on this story

 

Thanks for posting that link, but after reading it I would say his reasons for being there are even more questionable. Surely you cannot honestly believe for a minute based on the information to hand that he was held there for so long and treated so badly if there wasn’t more to this?

 

So he has been quoted as saying he was making a better future for his family, and then in that article you posted that he was there for humanitarian reasons. Which was it I wonder as they seem very different reasons to me and I would assume to his captors also for the last 13 years presuming he gave them the same two reasons.

 

Let’s have a look at both of those scenarios. At that time family life was not good, the Taliban had a grip on the country and allied bombing/military action was about to start if it hadn’t already, depending on when he was captured. There were thousands of people trying to get out of the place, thus the UNHCR refugee camp set up close to the Chaman border that afghans were desperate to get into despite it being a horrible place. Yet this guy who had left the relative safety it seems of the UK thought it would be a great place to make a better future for his family. I can only imagine what sort of future that was. Maybe he now has a ticket to Raqqa and follow the same dream.

 

 

So humanitarian works, the Taliban in the early 90s did allow certain NGOs access to the country to operate albeit under tough rules and they approved and appointed staff, mainly their own to each organisation this meant you had their “Security advisors”, Logisticians, drivers etc. Any non-Islamic westerners allowed in had to abide to their rules in terms of appearance, beard length and dress and this was enforced. By 2000 just about all NGOs had got out, either booted out by the Taliban or pulled out for security reasons, and we are not talking about some church group filling a transit van and sending a load of knitted scarves and coats out in a transit funded by coffee mornings, we are talking UNHCR, WFP, CARE, UNICEF, Oxfam, Tearfund and a few other DEC member NGOs.

 

Any foreigner would have had a tough time trying to do his own thing there, as a foreigner with connections in the west he would have stuck out and been treated as a western spy by the Taliban and dealt with immediately and without too many questions or investigation into his story, so I can’t imagine for a split second he was some naive aid worker who had found himself there carrying out good deeds in the name of Islam, Jesus or Santa. If he was in fact an employee from one of the NGOs operating in the country, don’t you think after 13 years they may have said something and come to this blokes aid? The only foreign operatives allowed to stay in Afghanistan at that time would have been affiliates to the Taliban or Al Qaeda and given the period of time he was held, it would appear his captors knew this. I guess we will never know for sure, but now he has his freedom, let’s hope he clears off back there and this time takes his family with him. Or maybe he will tell the world why he was there and how he has now seen the error of his ways thus assisting for battle against extremism and what goes hand in hand with it. But, I suspect the prospect of a fat pay out, lots of publicity and the use of human rights act to fall back on will mean he will proclaim his innocence forever.

[SupraStar 3000]

Maybe we should form an army of teenage girls.

 

Already started recruiting Pete.

 

Just trying to finalize the uniform design.

[Abz]

Thanks for posting that link, but after reading it I would say his reasons for being there are even more questionable. Surely you cannot honestly believe for a minute based on the information to hand that he was held there for so long and treated so badly if there wasn’t more to this?

 

So he has been quoted as saying he was making a better future for his family, and then in that article you posted that he was there for humanitarian reasons. Which was it I wonder as they seem very different reasons to me and I would assume to his captors also for the last 13 years presuming he gave them the same two reasons.

 

Let’s have a look at both of those scenarios. At that time family life was not good, the Taliban had a grip on the country and allied bombing/military action was about to start if it hadn’t already, depending on when he was captured. There were thousands of people trying to get out of the place, thus the UNHCR refugee camp set up close to the Chaman border that afghans were desperate to get into despite it being a horrible place. Yet this guy who had left the relative safety it seems of the UK thought it would be a great place to make a better future for his family. I can only imagine what sort of future that was. Maybe he now has a ticket to Raqqa and follow the same dream.

 

 

So humanitarian works, the Taliban in the early 90s did allow certain NGOs access to the country to operate albeit under tough rules and they approved and appointed staff, mainly their own to each organisation this meant you had their “Security advisors”, Logisticians, drivers etc. Any non-Islamic westerners allowed in had to abide to their rules in terms of appearance, beard length and dress and this was enforced. By 2000 just about all NGOs had got out, either booted out by the Taliban or pulled out for security reasons, and we are not talking about some church group filling a transit van and sending a load of knitted scarves and coats out in a transit funded by coffee mornings, we are talking UNHCR, WFP, CARE, UNICEF, Oxfam, Tearfund and a few other DEC member NGOs.

 

Any foreigner would have had a tough time trying to do his own thing there, as a foreigner with connections in the west he would have stuck out and been treated as a western spy by the Taliban and dealt with immediately and without too many questions or investigation into his story, so I can’t imagine for a split second he was some naive aid worker who had found himself there carrying out good deeds in the name of Islam, Jesus or Santa. If he was in fact an employee from one of the NGOs operating in the country, don’t you think after 13 years they may have said something and come to this blokes aid? The only foreign operatives allowed to stay in Afghanistan at that time would have been affiliates to the Taliban or Al Qaeda and given the period of time he was held, it would appear his captors knew this. I guess we will never know for sure, but now he has his freedom, let’s hope he clears off back there and this time takes his family with him. Or maybe he will tell the world why he was there and how he has now seen the error of his ways thus assisting for battle against extremism and what goes hand in hand with it. But, I suspect the prospect of a fat pay out, lots of publicity and the use of human rights act to fall back on will mean he will proclaim his innocence forever.

 

I know of a few people who went to War torn countries to make a better life for their family. One of them doing some work in IT earning £2k a day, where as here he would get £500 a day (then taxed).

 

6 months of working away he would be coming back with close to £240k. That would certainly improve some family life.

 

I am sure in nearly 14 years of being locked up, someone would have asked the questions... well you would have thought.

[Kendo11]

Careful of what you believe folks:

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/ab688427e4984b43a73023986f693969

[imi]

But, I suspect the prospect of a fat pay out, lots of publicity and the use of human rights act to fall back on will mean he will proclaim his innocence forever.

 

And an official apology from the Govt's in question.

[Kendo11]

Oops.

 

Moderate rebels joining JN (read: Al Qaeda);

 

http://www.stripes.com/news/us-backed-syrian-rebel-group-on-verge-of-collapse-1.383853?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=New%20Campaign&utm_term=*Situation%20Report

[imi]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=933587666720434

[Chris Wilson]

Now make him do the interview sat on his hands... He's just got to be Jewish

[supra_ufo]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=933587666720434

 

I watch Homeland,

respect this guy

[imi]

Accuracy of Allie attacks

[imi]

Aren't these the people we seem to be arming and training?

[Tony]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]207676[/ATTACH] Sounds right to me