The Islamist attack in Paris 13-11-15

[Kendo11]

This was an interesting read

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/nicolas-henin-the-man-who-was-held-captive-by-isis-for-10-months-says-how-they-can-be-defeated-a6757336.html

That got ignored about 5 pages ago. Shame because it is a very good read.

[JasonR24]

I agree - we aren't the world police - better to refrain from further invasions and focus on protecting our borders and address the enemy within - I've already suggested that on page 7 of this thread many days ago.

 

 

Israel Saudi Qatar are terrorist nations on the region with all the troubles. We just choose to support them.

 

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/04/d5c3390461ef030390852300d84b50a7.jpg

 

This is what I don't get, there is so much support for this total tool yet he flip flops all the time, how can all the people stand by this scumbag when one minute he's condemning bombing and then calls anyone against it terrorist sympathisers!! I'm sorry but if you support someone like that there is something wrong with you!

[JasonR24]

Hard to understand?

What don't you get?

You constantly blame Israel for everything.

PALESTINE ARE TERRORISTS.

 

Our government aren't the world police, there is no world police.

 

And you say they pick and choose who to slate or support, yet you do the exact same thing.

 

You think Palestine have the sun shine out of their backside and have done nothing wrong.

 

Whether you like it or not, Palestine has a legitimate government, just because our government doesn't like it and calls everyone a terrorist it doesn't make it true

[JasonR24]

Like Chris Rock said on Big Pharma: ‘No Money in the Cure, the Money’s in the Medicine’

 

Feed the business model.

 

Of course that's the business model. A large proportion of charitable donations goes to the executive. They are running it as a business, why oh why would you want a cure and then lose your sustainable profit model. That would make no business sense at all!

[Al Massey]

Cameron condemned RUSSIA bombing in Syria, not the use of bombs in Syria.

 

Total difference!

 

Palestine is still run by terrorists.

Syria is run by a legitimate government, who is a tyrant.

 

But you only slate Israel.

 

Israel this, Israel that.

 

So much hypocrisy about Israel and Palestine.

 

If you're going to pick a side, it can't be either of them as they are both as bad as each other.

Just Israel are better at it.

[imi]

Cameron condemned RUSSIA bombing in Syria, not the use of bombs in Syria.

 

Total difference!

.

 

so you are suggesting that Russia's bombing campaign will lead to more radicalisation and terrorists while as OURs will not?

 

Can you elaborate?

[JasonR24]

so you are suggesting that Russia's bombing campaign will lead to more radicalisation and terrorists while as OURs will not?

 

Can you elaborate?

 

This is what I was thinking lol. I don't think it matters who is bombing to be frank

[j_jza80]

This is what I was thinking lol. I don't think it matters who is bombing to be frank

 

There are some differences, our pilots are netter trained and more experienced, our weapons are more accurate (they will use larger weapons to do the same job, increasing the chances of extra deaths) , our leaders are probably more conscious of a public backlash if something goes wrong,so our targets will presumably be more limited.

 

I guess what David Cameron means by his somewhat Hypocritical comments about radicalisation and bombing is that the Russians are targeting forces that are currently aligned with our forces, and the Russians are putting that in jeopardy.

 

Although, as is always the case, the Isis propaganda machine will have it appear that every one of our weapons is being used on schools and hospitals.

 

So overall, our bombing practices are not broadly equivalent to the Russians, but the overall impact on radicalisation is really impossible to say.

[Scooter]

It will be interesting to see if Russia directly suffers any attacks on home soil, has it to date?

[j_jza80]

Obviously the recent airline attack over Egypt, a Russian aircraft full of Russian passengers. Otherwise nothing I can think of. Actually quite surprised there's been no terrorism from pro Ukrainian groups tbh.

[Kendo11]

It will be interesting to see if Russia directly suffers any attacks on home soil, has it to date?

 

 

Only a matter of time when you consider its close proximity to certain regions like Chechnya, Dagestan and the Kazan - although the intense monitoring & social control that the Russian government applies might work in its favour.

 

Most recently there were the Volgograd bombings in 2013.

 

For Russia their actions in Syria have been blessed as Jihad oddly enough by their own church.

 

But since Russia aren't even attacking IS they might not necessarily be top of the list at the moment.

[Al Massey]

Well aren't Russia on the side of Assad so will be bombing rebels and freedom fighters?

 

While we are attacking Isis.

[Al Massey]

[ATTACH]207257[/ATTACH]

[imi]

Well aren't Russia on the side of Assad so will be bombing rebels and freedom fighters?

 

While we are attacking Isis.

 

Still not sure how that explains Cameron's quote - perhaps you can elaborate cause I am struggling with that response of yours.

 

As for this response - I'm losing track of the various group fighting and why

 

We want Assad out while Russia want to keep him

 

We continue to tool up the rebels and "freedom fighters" (like we did with the taliban in Afghanistan and Al-qaeda in Iraq) as they are against Assad while Russia wants to nullify them?

 

Didn't we tool isis to fight against Assad and now they've branched out into a group with their own "cause" - aren't a lot of Isis from Iraq from saddam Bathiest party that are now fighting across the border?

 

How long before these freedom fighters defect to either Assad or Isis or create a new nutter group?

 

In a way we are also fighting against Russia?

 

I feel sorry for the innocent people that are being caught up in the crossfire and being killed by the bombs. I feel sorry for our UK population that support this bloodshed.

[imi]

There are some differences, our pilots are netter trained and more experienced, our weapons are more accurate (they will use larger weapons to do the same job, increasing the chances of extra deaths) , our leaders are probably more conscious of a public backlash if something goes wrong,so our targets will presumably be more limited.

 

I guess what David Cameron means by his somewhat Hypocritical comments about radicalisation and bombing is that the Russians are targeting forces that are currently aligned with our forces, and the Russians are putting that in jeopardy.

 

Although, as is always the case, the Isis propaganda machine will have it appear that every one of our weapons is being used on schools and hospitals.

 

So overall, our bombing practices are not broadly equivalent to the Russians, but the overall impact on radicalisation is really impossible to say.

 

The results of the invasions since 1990 speak for themselves.

[imi]

Shocking development in the US.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35013443

 

When do we launch air strikes there?

[Kendo11]

Still not sure how that explains Cameron's quote - perhaps you can elaborate cause I am struggling with that response of yours.

 

As for this response - I'm losing track of the various group fighting and why

 

We want Assad out while Russia want to keep him

 

We continue to tool up the rebels and "freedom fighters" (like we did with the taliban in Afghanistan and Al-qaeda in Iraq) as they are against Assad while Russia wants to nullify them?

 

Didn't we tool isis to fight against Assad and now they've branched out into a group with their own "cause" - aren't a lot of Isis from Iraq from saddam Bathiest party that are now fighting across the border?

 

How long before these freedom fighters defect to either Assad or Isis or create a new nutter group?

 

In a way we are also fighting against Russia?

 

I feel sorry for the innocent people that are being caught up in the crossfire and being killed by the bombs. I feel sorry for our UK population that support this bloodshed.

Pretty much.

 

Proxy warfare.

[Kendo11]

Shocking development in the US.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35013443

 

When do we launch air strikes there?

What they need are more guns

[j_jza80]

The results of the invasions since 1990 speak for themselves.

 

No they don't.

 

How do you think casualty rates would have been effected if instead of using modern IR and laser guided weapons, strikes had been carried out with;

 

- Ww2 era weapons

- Vietnam era weapons

- Soviet and/or modern era Russian weapons.

 

Development of weapons guidance systems, even in the last 20 years, means that targets can be destroyed using much smaller explosives (combined with ballistic effects in the case of Brimstone). And weapons casings now create less shrapnel. There is also the small detail that cluster munitions and minelets are now illegal.

 

From your perspective, it might not make much difference. But it will make alot of difference to potentially hundreds of people whose lives are spared because we spend billions in weapons development.

[Kendo11]

No they don't.

 

How do you think casualty rates would have been effected if instead of using modern IR and laser guided weapons, strikes had been carried out with;

 

- Ww2 era weapons

- Vietnam era weapons

- Soviet and/or modern era Russian weapons.

 

Development of weapons guidance systems, even in the last 20 years, means that targets can be destroyed using much smaller explosives (combined with ballistic effects in the case of Brimstone). And weapons casings now create less shrapnel. There is also the small detail that cluster munitions and minelets are now illegal.

 

From your perspective, it might not make much difference. But it will make alot of difference to potentially hundreds of people whose lives are spared because we spend billions in weapons development.

That's relevant possibly in the case of one single missile type that we use, but irrelevant in the context of what the rest of the world is currently dropping on Syria & Iraq.

[j_jza80]

That's relevant possibly in the case of one single missile type that we use, but irrelevant in the context of what the rest of the world is currently dropping on Syria & Iraq.

 

I only gave one example, but the information is out there on the evolution of Paveway weapons. But to put it simply, the newer Paveway II casings are penetrators, which angles the explosion upwards.

 

Compared to the Iron bombs that the Russians are using, along with their first gen LGBs.

 

Like I said, look at what would happen if we were using ww2 era blockbusters or incendiaries instead...

[imi]

From your perspective, it might not make much difference. But it will make alot of difference to potentially hundreds of people whose lives are spared because we spend billions in weapons development.

 

You're right - doesn't impress me at all and o don't buy it (as in believe any of it)

[imi]

 

Interesting - are they friends or foe?

[j_jza80]

15 months of UK bombing Iraq, an no one can provide evidence of even one civilian casualty attributed to UK strikes

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/04/is-uk-claim-zero-civilian-casualties-iraq-airstrikes-credible

 

I would say that's a pretty good record.

[Chris Wilson]

Are we having a Holy War, or a Pacifists Anonymous meeting? There was none of this old guff about how we might be hurting innocent people during the last two world wars, we just got on with it and let `em `ave it, as much of it as we could make, as often as possible.

 

The Liberals so often touted by the media seem to want a sterile war with no collateral damage, no kids hurt, and no soft targets hit, even if schools, hospitals and suchlike are the place of choice for jihadists to set up shop. On the basis of fighting with both arms behind our backs we might as well save our money and keep our few `planes on the ground.

 

Anyway, surely there can't be any peace loving Syrians left there, they all seem to be here in Europe.