Kendo11 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 How many of these Brimstone things have we actually got? How much do they cost? From a purely financial and logistical point of view lobbing very expensive missiles at a few blokes in a beaten up pick up truck seems a bit pointless. Are there some more worthy targets the various forces out there can engage? And what's President Assad had to say, does he want us bombing in his sovereign state? Were wanting to annihilate him last year.... What's happening with the hordes of unknown people roaming across Europe, and the morass in Calais that's at constant boiling point? When do the Yanks get shot of Obama? Maybe their next president will actually make some decisions and actually do something useful. It's about £500,000 per sortie not including Typhoon support that may be needed. The funny thing is if we'd have bombed Assad in 2013 IS would probably have faded away also, or would least be crushed by those on the ground. As for refugees/migrants, well you can expect to see a lot more of them. As well as terrorist attacks. But hey Cameron gets to play war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 What is surprising is the size of the parliamentary majority: 397 to 223. But public opinion is clearly in favour of strikes. 72% of Scots polled were against and only the solitary Scottish Tory MP and the equally lonely Liberal MP voted for air strikes out of 59 Scottish MPs. Perhaps the SNP MPs don't have big shareholdings in the military industrial complex, unlike many of the Tory and 'Labour' MPs. Look out for a headline grabbing ISIS attack on London in the near future - probably during the Christmas shopping rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 72% of Scots polled were against and only the solitary Scottish Tory MP and the equally lonely Liberal MP voted for air strikes out of 59 Scottish MPs. Perhaps the SNP MPs don't have big shareholdings in the military industrial complex, unlike many of the Tory and 'Labour' MPs. Look out for a headline grabbing ISIS attack on London in the near future - probably during the Christmas shopping rush. Spot on, no doubt to further encourage fear mongering & support for air strikes & bombing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 In regards to costs of weapons, I'd just like to point out that when a mission or bombing run is declared, it's not like the government go onto Amazon and buy a few weapons for next day delivery and slap it on the credit card. We already have these weapons, already paid for and all stocked up in many places ready to go from previous budgets and contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 In regards to costs of weapons, I'd just like to point out that when a mission or bombing run is declared, it's not like the government go onto Amazon and buy a few weapons for next day delivery and slap it on the credit card. We already have these weapons, already paid for and all stocked up in many places ready to go from previous budgets and contracts. And the stock pile isn't replenished? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 There will be various maintenance and upkeep costs associated with the storage of something like a Brimstone, and may have a shelf life for certain components. But as an example, the 1000lb bombs we dropped on Port Stanley during the first Black Buck mission had been bought during ww2, some 40 years earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Found this on Facebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Rioting in Calais again. That place wants a 1000 pounder or two on it. What annoys me is all the people I know who go on about immigration and how it's like Cairo over here then go out and buy takeaways and "Indian" meals, (do Indians actually run these places, the last one I went in was actually run by Bangladeshis...), If they really don't like immigrants don't buy anything off them, don't support their businesses, and do whatever you legally can to drive them out. But no, 12 hours of whining then after work and at the weekends they go and fill their pockets for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I'm sorry Imi, but that really is tinfoil hat stuff. Possibly (who knows), as a result of the reading up I have been doing due to this thread and the links posted by all of you it does seem plausible. Trying to blame all of this on Israel is feeding into the extremists rhetoric in a way that is every bit as bad as bombing. Who is? read my entire post - rather than quoting out of context to misrepresent and deflect.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 Are you denying that Isis is comprised of Muslims? Would these people be joining Isis if they weren't Muslim? You could of course make a comparison with the kkk, although they were obviously on a much smaller scales than Isis, or and of the other extreme Islamic groups in existence. But when making that comparison, you should probably ask why the KKK went from having a membership spanning millions, to fewer than a few thousand today. It was the larger white society of the US, through disgust at the actions of the kkk, which lead to tighter law enforcement, executions and education. The people who can defeat Isis ideologically are happy to sit back and do nothing. Paint everyone else as the bad guys. And them complain when other people are forced to deal with them. The silence from countries like Pakistan, Saudi, Qatar, Dubai etc is deafening. Egypt are dealing with it, though in a barbaric way. And Iran are as bad as the people they're fighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 Possibly (who knows), as a result of the reading up I have been doing due to this thread and the links posted by all of you it does seem plausible. Who is? can you show me a post of mine where I puts all the blame on Israel? You just attributed it to a grand plan of Israeli expansion. And even if that was read out of context, social media is alive today with people blaming Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 You just attributed it to a grand plan of Israeli expansion. And even if that was read out of context, social media is alive today with people blaming Israel. Here is my post - stop quoting out of context - its poor form. "Not surprising - entirely predictable like said earlier war is a super successful business model and there is as additional incentive in destabilising and targeting the "not so rich" Arab countries to further the greater Israel expansion project. To me it seems like Isis was a deliberate creation exaggerated to mobilise this next phase of an established and agreed plan. Sad day for our civil and humane society - feel sorry for the innocent losses already sustained and the many more innocent sustained moving forward both home and away - local and foreign only to guarantee a more dangerous world for our and future generations to inherit" if you continue to resort to quoting out of context, trying to decredit sources cause of what they said on a completely different issue (e.g Corbyn) - you simply lower the tone of the debate which is disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The cost of the campaign will be in the 'low tens of millions', so it's a very real and very current cost. It's not something that has been paid for long ago and Cameron is just cashing the cheque. ---------- If you want to talk about Israel jza, I've already mentioned the Golan heights. Watch what happens there in the next decade or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 I don't want to discuss Israel, because it has very little to do with this situation. Other than those who use it as a scapegoat, or a justification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 Here is my post - stop quoting out of context - its poor form. "Not surprising - entirely predictable like said earlier war is a super successful business model and there is as additional incentive in destabilising and targeting the "not so rich" Arab countries to further the greater Israel expansion project. To me it seems like Isis was a deliberate creation exaggerated to mobilise this next phase of an established and agreed plan. Sad day for our civil and humane society - feel sorry for the innocent losses already sustained and the many more innocent sustained moving forward both home and away - local and foreign only to guarantee a more dangerous world for our and future generations to inherit" if you continue to resort to quoting out of context, trying to decredit sources cause of what they said on a completely different issue (e.g Corbyn) - you simply lower the tone of the debate which is disappointing. What Corbyn has said before, and who he associates with, are totally relative. He was supposed to be representing those who oppose bombing. He was an utter failure yesterday, and has basically handed Camoron a victory. The case for not bombing was strong, and had it been carried by someone with an ounce if credibility, we probably wouldn't be bombing Islamic State today. Hillary Benn was undoubtedly the star of the Labour debate. And you were trying to blame Israel, at least partially, so it wasn't really out of context. But to further my point earlier, it isn't because of big business that Muslims are being radicalised. I can accept you thinking business has an influence on Western policy, and it does, because we know the invested interest lobby governments to that end. But Is aren't a creation of big business. Their suicide bombers aren't shouting "profit margins" or "big bonus" when they blow themselves up. We can reduce the flow of people leaving this country to fight for them by preventing religious indoctrination here. And by making these impressionable minds aware that their allegiances belong to the people of the country they live in, not people and organisations thousands of miles away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I don't want to discuss Israel, because it has very little to do with this situation. Other than those who use it as a scapegoat, or a justification. It has everything to do with the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 It has everything to do with the situation. Why does it have everything to do with the situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 It has everything to do with the situation. It seems more than a little Ironic that people complain about a Jewish theocracy, when the whole region is full of Islamic ones. It's all just evidence that religion belongs in the bin or in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Why does it have everything to do with the situation? See previous re. Golan Heights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 What makes me laugh is the government always says there's no money for NHS, Police or much needed services but oh 500k PER bombing run is a good use of resources..... If a bomb needs dropping anywhere it's on Westminster.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 As it stands, we currently spend 3x the amount on the NHS annually as we do the MOD. We spend more than enough on health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 As it stands, we currently spend 3x the amount on the NHS annually as we do the MOD. We spend more than enough on health. And so we should. Does this costing include contracts to BAE and the like? Those that are clearly getting more money than they deserve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 As it stands, we currently spend 3x the amount on the NHS annually as we do the MOD. We spend more than enough on health. Wow. So deluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 Current mod budget circa £45b Current NHS budget including recent increase and deficits circa £120b per year. They are the facts. If you have something to add Ken, please do so without launching insults. I agree that we need to be spending a lot on health. I.don't agree that you can use shortfalls in an already enormous NHS budget to castigate defence spending, especially when the NHS is rife with waste and corruption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Current mod budget circa £45b Current NHS budget including recent increase and deficits circa £120b per year. They are the facts. If you have something to add Ken, please do so without launching insults. I agree that we need to be spending a lot on health. I.don't agree that you can use shortfalls in an already enormous NHS budget to castigate defence spending, especially when the NHS is rife with waste and corruption. Insults? If you think calling you deluded is an insult you need some thicker skin. An enormous amount has been reported over the past 2-3 years on underfunding in the NHS. There's so much out there you need to have been living under a rock not to have noticed. The "tens of millions" (again quoting Osborne directly) could be far better put to use elsewhere, primarily the NHS but also in policing, border control, intelligence just to name a few. A waste of money, resources, life, time, and effort for minimal results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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