Kendo11 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Those wondering what Putin would do next have their answer. Bombing a humanitarian aid convoy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Escalations in Sinjar also. http://ezidipress.com/en/escalation-in-shingal-clashes-between-yezidi-and-muslim-peshmerga/ Inevitable really but a shame considering the recent cooperation to drive isis out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 Whats your point? Agree to Consistency or Hypocrisy? I don't think you can have a blanket response to every situation. I was merely responding to points that you raised, though I concur that there is far too much double standards and hypocrisy in our foreign policy. Although we are not unique in that respect, every country in the world does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I found this interesting. First ever western reporter allowed into Isis http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/inside-isis-the-first-western-journalist-ever-given-access-to-the-islamic-state-has-just-returned-9938438.html Will read his book when it is out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 It's as bad, if not worse than I feared then. I think another fact that needs establishing is how many of the people living in the Islamic State nation actually want this? Interesting how they view atheists and agnostics as their main enemy. It must be because they view Christians and Jews as potential converts. Of course, our best weapons against these monsters are facts, science and education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 A group of people actually demonstrated against isis rule recently, incredibly brave considering. It seems half of it is down to obedience out of fear, of course there will be a lot that will prefer isis to the regime for whatever reason also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 A group of people actually demonstrated against isis rule recently, incredibly brave considering. It seems half of it is down to obedience out of fear, of course there will be a lot that will prefer isis to the regime for whatever reason also. Have you got a link? If that happened, they really are either incredibly brave or stupid. I hope they didn't suffer for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 http://ww4report.com/node/14472 All over social media but there's an Internet linky. I'd say bravery/frustration. A lot of them have absolutely nothing left to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Thanks. As I said, I hope they're okay. The Nazi's had a way of dealing with 'political prisoners', I doubt ISIS are any more tolerant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Thanks. As I said, I hope they're okay. The Nazi's had a way of dealing with 'political prisoners', I doubt ISIS are any more tolerant. Yeah exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 You seem to be labouring under the idea that we are to blame for everything happening there. We are partially responsible, but these issues have their roots long before Western interventions. You can see the causes all the way back before the Ottoman empire, before Islam, right back to the days of the Roman empire, and their adoption of Christianity. You're also overlooking the Arab Spring, which we wrongly interpreted as a march towards democracy. It has now been shown that it was a march towards hardline Islamism. And then there is the oppression of the Assad regime. Yes, we have to bare responsibility for our part, but trying to squarely blame the West for all this is counterproductive, as it feeds into the rhetoric of ISIS. Problem is we have a habit of sticking our nose into all these "conflicts" - like that annoying lad that constantly hovers around wanting to get involved despite not having a scooby......forcing his way through only to drop a massive stink bomb If you are looking for hardline "Islamism" then look no further than our Rich Gulf Allies that exist due to our support. Arab springs was a sham and a scam to destabilize the region of moderate arabs (precursor to this proxy war). Again - we've covered this already. anyway, i've provided my view on the why and the how - its laughable to me when i hear some STILL go on about western humanitarian interests - I don't believe them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Israel / Palestine aren't abducting people from around the world and beheading them for propaganda. Israel / Palestine didn't take credit for 120 deaths in the capital of one of our closest friends and allies recently. These guys are taking credit for anything and everything around the world - wouldnt surprise me if they take credit for someones flat tyre or a blocked toilet.... Israel are the polar opposite - they are doing a stellar job is NOT taking credit for all that they are doing (behind the scenes obviously). Although imo the Palestinian situation is being used to corrupt the minds of Western Muslims (and Jews, though probably to a lesser extent). Even just from social media, you can see that issue causes a great deal of irrational hatred and confusion, and can squarely be held responsible for the rise in anti semitic attacks in Europe. Its a shame that people like you are selective in your humanitarians emotions - have this affinity towards Syrians and Iraqis however an allergy towards Palestinians - victims of genocide for the past many decades. It is also a shame that more people (outside of certain communities) are not speaking up to the atrocities that Israel is responsible for and bringing their powers to be to justice - topic for another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 I think you're generalising though. I think in all democracies, the ministers or their equivalents vote on things for a variety of reasons. Yes, there will be those who are doing it because of vested interests, lobbyists etc. But there will also be those doing so for humanitarian reasons, and those who do so because they reflect the will of their electorate. A point established early in this thread, and quite correctly, is not tarring all Muslims with the same brush as Isis. How is it any better to do the same with MP's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 These guys are taking credit for anything and everything around the world - wouldnt surprise me if they take credit for someones flat tyre or a blocked toilet.... Israel are the polar opposite - they are doing a stellar job is NOT taking credit for all that they are doing (behind the scenes obviously). Its a shame that people like you are selective in your humanitarians emotions - have this affinity towards Syrians and Iraqis however an allergy towards Palestinians. It is also a shame that more people (outside of certain communities) are not speaking up to the atrocities that Israel is responsible for and bringing their powers to be to justice - topic for another thread. Are you calling out for the Palestinians to be brought to justice for their attrocities? I see both sides as equally guilty in that conflict. Both commit monstrous acts, I maybe sympathise with the civilians in Israel over their Palestinian counterparts because they are more tolerant. But the regimes in either country are equally monstrous. The Iraqis and Syrians are not in the same situation at all. Syria was a relatively tolerant society until the Arab Spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I think you're generalising though. I think in all democracies, the ministers or their equivalents vote on things for a variety of reasons. Yes, there will be those who are doing it because of vested interests, lobbyists etc. But there will also be those doing so for humanitarian reasons, and those who do so because they reflect the will of their electorate. well we know that is rubbish cause I was one of 2 Million that turned up for the Stop the war protest march - and we know how that ended. Democracy is no match to big business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Then why didn't we launch airstrikes in Syria at the last vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 My Syrian colleague has a very interesting thought on D'aesh and how they started, and it's the same train of thought for a lot of Syrians and that it was Assad who started them to tackle the rebels and freedom fighters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 My Syrian colleague has a very interesting thought on D'aesh and how they started, and it's the same train of thought for a lot of Syrians and that it was Assad who started them to tackle the rebels and freedom fighters. Seen a lot of stuff on that recently too. Our leaders all know it too, only this week they've been imposing sanctions on a 'middle man' for oil sales from IS to Assad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 They should impose sanctions on Turkey, as it is becoming all to apparent that in addition to allowing IS supply lines over their borders, have actually been buying oil from ISIS: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/19/-sp-islamic-state-oil-empire-iraq-isis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Saudi, Turkey, Assad, all have been heavily implicated in buying oil either directly or indirectly from IS. Same old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Seen a lot of stuff on that recently too. Our leaders all know it too, only this week they've been imposing sanctions on a 'middle man' for oil sales from IS to Assad. Yeah he said the same thing. His 2 brothers are still over there and are truck drivers and they claim that Assad is buying oil from D'aesh. And we watched a video on Facebook where the media were reporting that a Russian air strike took out civilians and buildings, but the locals don't think it was Russian air strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Do you know which town? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Further to Imi's earlier point about big business and invested interests, it appears that the son of the Turkish president is facilitating the Isis oil sales! https://www.rt.com/business/323391-isis-oil-business-turkey-russia/ That, in combination with recent Russian efforts to destroy oil distribution within Syria and the resulting destruction of a Russian jet, paint a very disturbing picture of Turkeys allegiances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Would take that with a monumental pinch of salt mate. I agree it wouldn't be surprising, but RT is state sponsored and a lot of their output is questionable. But yeah it's probably true! I also read today that IS are allegedly selling organs (as in human organs) to Turkey which if there is even a trace of truth is absolutely mental Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Then why didn't we launch airstrikes in Syria at the last vote? - You're clutching on straws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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