Kendo11 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Refugees I can understand getting free tuition. But for someone who doesn't "need" too because they have a breadwinner in the house is bollocks. It doesn't matter if they are women, men or children. They should learn the language. And I feel the same for Brits who live abroad too Maybe. Very easy to dismiss something as bollocks isn't it? From a practical point of view I don't think it's something that can be forced if we're talking general day to day life whether it's here and English or Spain and Spanish for example. If it's concerning certain job roles then I'd say it should obviously be compulsory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Clumsy, yes, but he has the right idea. Extremism isn't just hating the infidel, or blowing people up. Isolation, through self inflicted language and cultural barriers is another type of extremism. It discourages integration into society, and encourages cultural enclaves. So while individuals participating in this isolation aren't harmful to the country, collectively they are doing a lot of damage to society. None of that is extremism though. It's detrimental to the overall society in some aspects, but it's not extremist behaviour. The problem with his idea is that A) it's 40 years too late and B) it can't be enforced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 I'd say that removing public funded translators would be a good start and make it a legal requirement that all interactions between public servants and citizens are in English. Watch how quickly people start being able to speak English when it threatens their healthcare or child benefit payments You could argue that it is unhealthy for children to have parents who can't speak the native language too, as if will limit their integration into society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I'd say that removing public funded translators would be a good start and make it a legal requirement that all interactions between public servants and citizens are in English. Watch how quickly people start being able to speak English when it threatens their healthcare or child benefit payments That would definitely be worth a try! You could argue that it is unhealthy for children to have parents who can't speak the native language too, as if will limit their integration into society. Doesn't make an ounce of difference mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Maybe. Very easy to dismiss something as bollocks isn't it? From a practical point of view I don't think it's something that can be forced if we're talking general day to day life whether it's here and English or Spain and Spanish for example. If it's concerning certain job roles then I'd say it should obviously be compulsory. No it is bollocks. You can not say that there is no need to speak English if you want to live in England/UK That is no excuse. But it's an excuse I'm seeing time and time again in the news how people get let off jail or a ban on their licence as their wives don't speak English and they rely on his income so if jailed/lost licence she would be up shit creek. But if the wives spoke English, it would be fine. Enough of this PC crap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 No it is bollocks. You can not say that there is no need to speak English if you want to live in England/UK That is no excuse. But it's an excuse I'm seeing time and time again in the news how people get let off jail or a ban on their licence as their wives don't speak English and they rely on his income so if jailed/lost licence she would be up shit creek. But if the wives spoke English, it would be fine. Enough of this PC crap! Firstly, if those cases you mention are true then that is bollocks and shouldn't be happening. However, say a family from Mars moves to England. The Dad and the 4 children all speak English and Martian but the Mum only wants to speak Martian, because she's happy getting by with the very basics of English (i.e please and thank you and the like) and has struggled to learn and so has given up. Explain how that is "PC crap"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Because that person isn't "happily getting by" in British society. Just because they don't know any better than being trapped by language and culture, doesn't make it healthy. In fact, they aren't contributing to British society in any way, so why would we want her here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Because that person isn't "happily getting by" in British society. Just because they don't know any better than being trapped by language and culture, doesn't make it healthy. Can you explain how you know that person isn't happily getting by and feels trapped please? In fact, they aren't contributing to British society in any way, so why would we want her here? If the couple/family make a contribution to British economy as opposed to British society would that not be more important? Say a Chinese family own a fully legal tax paying restaurant and employs a couple of local lads as delivery drivers, but the wife doesn't speak much English - is her value to the economy worth it when weighed against her value to society? See, like most nonsense the current government, the previous government, and the next government comes out with regarding this - none of it is properly thought out or feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 The real menace - thousands born and breed in Europe and exported to Iraq & Syria capable of travelling to and fro without too many issues. Not to mention non-european nutters who will most definitely have infiltrated Europe on the back of the refugee crisis - as Isis promised. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/female-isis-jihadist-tortures-syrian-7136368 Our European leaders are hell bent on destroying Europe by being too PC - and not taking appropriate action. we should get out of Europe and protect our borders as a matter of priority, simultaneously dealing with the enemies within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Can you explain how you know that person isn't happily getting by and feels trapped please? If the couple/family make a contribution to British economy as opposed to British society would that not be more important? Say a Chinese family own a fully legal tax paying restaurant and employs a couple of local lads as delivery drivers, but the wife doesn't speak much English - is her value to the economy worth it when weighed against her value to society? See, like most nonsense the current government, the previous government, and the next government comes out with regarding this - none of it is properly thought out or feasible. I would make the distinction between participating in society, and contributing money to it. Just think of all the things you do every day that would be restricted by not knowing the language; reading, writing, social media, driving, shopping, travel etc not to mention doctors appointments, emergencies etc. While I fully agree that there is no way you could legally enforce it, it should be considered an ethical obligation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Firstly it's ignorant as hell, and many problems can arise from it. But let's use your Martian analogy. Father is at work/away/unavailable. Something happens that requires police/fire service/doctor or nurse What then? What if the father passed away? Then what? You expect the country to bend over backwards for the Martian mother who can't speak a word of English but is perfectly fine doing sweet FA and not contributing anything but as long as she is happy it's ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I would make the distinction between participating in society, and contributing money to it. Just think of all the things you do every day that would be restricted by not knowing the language; reading, writing, social media, driving, shopping, travel etc not to mention doctors appointments, emergencies etc. While I fully agree that there is no way you could legally enforce it, it should be considered an ethical obligation. I agree it should be, but like we've said it's just not enforceable. Cameron is seemingly forgetting the hundreds of thousands of migrants/refugees etc from everywhere else including Europe that might not have a grasp of the language that may/may not be interested in learning more of the language. His estimated fund of £20 million will soon spiral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Firstly it's ignorant as hell, and many problems can arise from it. But let's use your Martian analogy. Father is at work/away/unavailable. Something happens that requires police/fire service/doctor or nurse What then? What if the father passed away? Then what? You expect the country to bend over backwards for the Martian mother who can't speak a word of English but is perfectly fine doing sweet FA and not contributing anything but as long as she is happy it's ok? I don't expect anyone to bend over anywhere. I'm making the point that while it might be the 'right' thing to do overall in terms of culturally and socially - it's just not feasible, in my opinion, and not as simple as Cameron is making out. I am speaking from personal experience (well, in laws) but won't go into it any further on here to be honest. We'll have universal translators in about 20 years anyway so it'll all be ok [emoji1] [emoji1] [emoji1] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I don't expect anyone to bend over anywhere. I'm making the point that while it might be the 'right' thing to do overall in terms of culturally and socially - it's just not feasible, in my opinion, and not as simple as Cameron is making out. I am speaking from personal experience (well, in laws) but won't go into it any further on here to be honest. We'll have universal translators in about 20 years anyway so it'll all be ok [emoji1] [emoji1] [emoji1] That will only work for the Martians and Klingons [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Worth watching.....http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-jihadis-next-door Why don't we lock these guys away or send them to a nut country like Saudi once and for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanya Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I think getting out of Europe and "protect" our interests is what prompted the bombings and unstable situation in the first place. I think the way to silence and stop all that is to leave them alone, and I mean big time, don't touch their minerals and don't touch their market, stop the media war and stop the democracy or death propaganda. But this will mean a big blow to our economy as we became massively reliant on the cash flow from Middle East and Asia. I think this is impossible. Hence, however ugly it might sound, we have to keep their life style down and deal with any type of resistance they come up with to maintain and defend our interests. Now the situation is moving towards "it us or them". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I think getting out of Europe and "protect" our interests is what prompted the bombings and unstable situation in the first place. I think the way to silence and stop all that is to leave them alone, and I mean big time, don't touch their minerals and don't touch their market, stop the media war and stop the democracy or death propaganda. But this will mean a big blow to our economy as we became massively reliant on the cash flow from Middle East and Asia. I think this is impossible. Hence, however ugly it might sound, we have to keep their life style down and deal with any type of resistance they come up with to maintain and defend our interests. Now the situation is moving towards "it us or them". That's the problem I think - we want to deal with that region and use their resources, obviously oil being the key, but want to keep everything else at arms length. Difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 That's the problem I think - we want to deal with that region and use their resources, obviously oil being the key, but want to keep everything else at arms length. Difficult. certainly was true of the past - with the oil prices at an all time low projected to hit USD10 we can already see the cracks forming in Saudi and potentially other oil rich middle east terrorist states. personally happy for them to be left alone however cant ignore the enemy within - that has to be dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Gruesome http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35685981 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 Gruesome http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35685981 Poor child but is it definitely a terrorist incident? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Poor child but is it definitely a terrorist incident? I was thinking the same thing. Let's not make this thread a dumping ground for anything that could be. Unless imi knows different, of course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 Although beheading is probably one of the most brutal things someone can do, and in public it is a form of terrorism, intentional or not, but there are a few precedents for this behaviour without a political / religious motive, such as the beheading in London last year (not Lee rigby), and that one in Tenerife a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Poor child but is it definitely a terrorist incident? Apparently the nanny was wearing a hijab - alluding to her being a muslim and such ferocious acts would be associated to jihadists - perhaps in due course there will be confirmation either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Apparently the nanny was wearing a hijab - alluding to her being a muslim and such ferocious acts would be associated to jihadists - perhaps in due course there will be confirmation either way. Apparently walking down the street shouting Allahu Akbar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Moscow police aren't treating it as terrorism according to Vice. She was pretty clearly mentally ill. As Gaz said, this is becoming a dumping ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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