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Oil quality post na/t ? 135 deg. Cent.?


herbiemercman

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Ok Gaz, My first thread was about "do you need an oil cooler" my second thread, which i now realise i could have merged, was "why is my oil overheating" as i was advised originally that an oil cooler was not necessary, so i thought, why am i overheating.

Anyway i am ordering an oil cooler today, and i thank everyone for their help.

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Thanks Guys for your help, just managed to reach my NA/T man and on all his previous conversions he has not needed to fit an oil cooler, i asked him is it possible that my turbo is running much hotter as it had to have a different MAP to the others as i wanted to keep my stock rear silencer etc and this restriction is causing the overheating, he agreed and is sending me an oil cooler kit, what a great guy he is. The situation also explains why i have had to fit extra baffles and ceramic insulation on the brake servo and the bulk head. This is real bespoke tuning, interesting and you keep learning, thanks for your patience, i had to ask the club site the questions as i could not get hold of my man for the past several days, he was on hols etc.

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So whats the down pipe size and the rest of the exhaust system? are you saying that you have kept the std N/A silencer?

 

 

 

The restrictive rear silencer wont help power and will make it harder to attain the same boost pressure, and in theory should limit ultimate boost pressure, and yes make the turbo run a bit hotter by making it work much harder to make boost, however I SERIOUSLY DOUBT its the sole reason for you oil temps, I think I would be run an EGT probe as the EGTs could be high if there is too much of a restriction.

 

I would look for a decent flowing but quiet aftermarket silencer to replace the std one.

Edited by Tricky-Ricky (see edit history)
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Just to add re the exhaust if you want a more free flowing exhaust and want it to remain quiet then I would recommend the Tanabe Touring Medallion.

 

JamieP had one recently on his 700+bhp Single White Goose so it has plenty of flow and it is quiet as well.

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Hi Tricky, You may be right about the EGT but i have the same MPG as before and the exhaust is fairly sooty, before it was more dark grey, i have passed your comments on to my NA/T man.

 

The down pipe is 3 inch diam and the pipe to the rear is 2.5 inches dia to meet two 2.5 inch pipes running about 3 ft to the rear silencer.

 

I have not mentioned lean running or knock in any postings, what is knock? and why is this serious? many thanks.

 

Hi Abz, Thanks for the info re the "tenable Touring Medallion", hope i do not need it and the oil cooler solves all, my exhaust sounds really good, a deep burble.

Edited by herbiemercman (see edit history)
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Hi David, I have no knocking and car runs great, done 350 miles now at good speeds etc, presumably the piston damage takes a long time to take place? Also my NA/T man did lots of mapping with a very experienced guy, so no pre-ignition etc. Your pici does show how important acurate experienced mapping is. Thanks for info.

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Hi Tricky, You may be right about the EGT but i have the same MPG as before and the exhaust is fairly sooty, before it was more dark grey, i have passed your comments on to my NA/T man.

 

The down pipe is 3 inch diam and the pipe to the rear is 2.5 inches dia to meet two 2.5 inch pipes running about 3 ft to the rear silencer.

 

I have not mentioned lean running or knock in any postings, what is knock? and why is this serious? many thanks.

 

Hi Abz, Thanks for the info re the "tenable Touring Medallion", hope i do not need it and the oil cooler solves all, my exhaust sounds really good, a deep burble.

 

Sorry fella scrub the knock remark, I am getting confused with another thread I have been posting on that is power/dyno related, but I do think the std N/A silencer is not the best option as it would be more restrictive than a std TT item.

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Hi Guys, Just been in touch with my "NA/T man), I was asking him about a sandwich plate, with thermostat for my oil cooler etc, he said wowe, stop there, i have been testing two cars with my kit fitted, one with the big wide open exhaust system and the other with a tight restricter fitted, as i needed to know if a restrited exhaust could cause the turbo to overheat and cook the oil to 135 deg C, and after a hard drive the open exhaust was circa 100 deg. C and the highly restricted was circa 108 deg.C , neither cars have oil coolers, and non of his previous NA/T's over the past years had oil coolers. For this reason and him being involved with the experienced mapper thinks that the oil temperature gauge is faulty ? I asked him, then why has the semi synth new oil gone darker in 350 miles ? he replied that many car's oil goes darker even the ones where the oil temp is showing only 100 deg C.

So a good guy wants to know what is happening and sending me a new oil temp gauge, 3 x times the cost of the one that is fitted. Be interesting to see what the outcome is ?

 

I must admit i wanted an oil cooler as my other cars have them and i find it hard to not see why one would not be better all round. having said that i am would not be looking forward to removing the front wheels, the headlights and the front bumper, a balls ache. lol. herbiemercman.

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I can say i never used an oil cooler on my old one at over 400hp and didn't use any heat shielding on brake/clutch components nearby

 

Seems yours is definitely getting quite hot for whatever reason

 

I would only fit an oil cooler if your using a proper thermostatic sandwich plate, without one your oil will be running through all the time and in winter months will be over cooling,

 

Also you may have already explained, but why semi synthetic oil?

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Hi Guys, Just been in touch with my "NA/T man), I was asking him about a sandwich plate, with thermostat for my oil cooler etc, he said wowe, stop there, i have been testing two cars with my kit fitted, one with the big wide open exhaust system and the other with a tight restricter fitted, as i needed to know if a restrited exhaust could cause the turbo to overheat and cook the oil to 135 deg C, and after a hard drive the open exhaust was circa 100 deg. C and the highly restricted was circa 108 deg.C , neither cars have oil coolers, and non of his previous NA/T's over the past years had oil coolers. For this reason and him being involved with the experienced mapper thinks that the oil temperature gauge is faulty ? I asked him, then why has the semi synth new oil gone darker in 350 miles ? he replied that many car's oil goes darker even the ones where the oil temp is showing only 100 deg C.

So a good guy wants to know what is happening and sending me a new oil temp gauge, 3 x times the cost of the one that is fitted. Be interesting to see what the outcome is ?

 

I must admit i wanted an oil cooler as my other cars have them and i find it hard to not see why one would not be better all round. having said that i am would not be looking forward to removing the front wheels, the headlights and the front bumper, a balls ache. lol. herbiemercman.

 

 

Yes its quite normal for new oil to discolour after a short period, especially if the previous maintenance has been possibly neglected, and some oils contain more detergent compounds than others which will result in the discolour, didn't mention that before as I didn't consider it a factor of the over temp.

 

Anyway, your guy obviously thinks you oil temp guage is faulty, which is quite possible, but again as you didn't mention it I presumed that its something you had already checked.

 

Question for your NA/T guy, did the cars converted to single turbo, and tested with different exhausts, have oil only cooling for the turbo, or water? as it will make a big difference.

 

If you do end up fitting an oil cooler (thermostatic take of plate is a must) you will only need to remove the wheel and the arch liner to fit.

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I would be very very surprised if the temp readings you cite are accurate, they seem very high for fast cruising. But you must also bear in mind a proper TT would have a bigger water rad, and an oil to water heat exchanger as standard. I myself would await the new gauge and see if your readings were accurate. If you do choose to have an oil cooler fitted it *MUST* be thermostatically controlled or the oil will never get hot enough to drive the water produced by combustion processes from it. I prefer to monitor oil temperature in the sump, from where the pump is drawing the oil.

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I really appreciate your help, Tricky and Chris, you both know i have a great respect for my NA/T man, it's like i have three top dogs with good experience and i am enjoying the knowledge i am gaining, this makes owning a car like the mk4 Supra more enjoyable. I will ask about the cooling for the turbo on the cars he tested, and if i do fit an oil cooler i will fit the thermostatic sandwich plate.

 

There is a basic ( non-thermostat) sandwich plate adapter currently fitted for the NA/T conversion, it has the oil temperature sensor screwed into it and next to that the fitting for the turbo oil feed, so i would like to know if i could end up with two sandwich plates if i do end up with an oil cooler ? or is there a thermostatic one that could give me a connection with a non thermostat controlled outlet, to feed the turbo, and two outlets for the flow and return to the oil cooler, and a connection for the oil temp sensor? I ask this as i do not like the idea of two sandwich plates. Also i could fit a sump plug adapter bush and move the oil temp sensor, if such a bush is available ?

The alternative would be the possibility of coupling the oil cooler up to the 12mm pipes in front of the radiator and adding an inline thermostat ? What do you think ?

 

I have done most repairs and servicing on all my cars and i like knowing they are spot on, the tuning of a supra is another dimension to people who do not know the A to Z of this breed. That is why i drew the line at not doing my own conversion.

 

This thread has also brought good help from other members and it's great, they to will be learning and i will keep the info coming until the problem is solved. herbiemercman.

Edited by herbiemercman (see edit history)
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I am presuming that you mean a sensor take off plate attached to the oil filter housing for fitting oil temp and pressure sensors, if so you should be able to get a thermostatic take off plate with sensor take offs, personally I would use a take off plate rather than an in line oil stat.

 

But in any case I would wait until the new oil temp gauge is fitted to determine if the high temp was indeed accurate or not, on that subject and the l;location of the sensor, the take off plate will normally show up to 5deg higher than the sump due to its location, and the readings will be less stable, the sump due to its volume will reflect a more accurate general temp, however I always feel that an adapter for the sump plug is a little vulnerable, I would rather remove the sump and weld a boss for the sensor in the side out of harms way.

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Hi Tricky and Chris, Thanks again for your help, i take the point on not having the oil temp sensor in the sump plug, and because it always reads higher where it is in the filter sandwich plate adapter, then that is ok. My boost and oil temp gauges are cheapows so the upgrades which my NA/T man is sending me, are much higher quality, be interesting to see what happens to the oil temp ?

 

With reference to the oil filter sandwich plate adapter, which i will only require if an oil cooler is needed, then i have the option Chris mentioned, and i will buy a thermostatic sandwich plate adapter, presumably this will be marked for the thermostat controlled outlet and a non thermostat controlled outlet for the turbo oil feed?

What do you think about my idea to connect the oil cooler into the 12mm pipes in front of the radiator, i assume these are oil pipes?

 

20151007_161250.jpg (190.1 KB)

20151007_161250.jpg

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This is the sort of kit your looking at, AFAIK the Mocal thermostatic take off plate does not have any sensor ports, so you would need to keep the one you currently have, but that's not really a problem.

 

Not quite sure what you mean about pipes in front of the rad?? if you fit a cooler kit the small (19 row) cooler can fit in the side pods of the bumper.

 

http://www.tomiokaracing.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/s/dsc_7264_v1.jpg

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Hi Tricky, Thanks for the oil cooler kit info. I may not need an oil cooler if the new temp gauge shows the oil temp to be ok?, but i am the kind of person who likes to plan for the worst, i am a HND mech and electrical engineer, this helps me understand the engineering, but not the A to Z of the Supra breed, this club is a great interest and life line to me.

 

Back to the 12mm steel pipes which form a U-shape in front of the radiator on the stock NA's, it could be a Toyota small oil cooler, and Chris Wilson and my NA/T man will know if i am guessing correctly.

If i am correct, then joining the oil cooler to this pipe is very convenient and i can retain my filter adapter plate with the temp sensor and the take off for the turbo oil feed. I don't really want to disturb the oil filter arrangement as it gets messy and other members have said it is not easy to get at and prone to leaks etc.

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