rider Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 There was a thread started by me in the classifieds concerning an eBay listing for a 'UK spec' car that had been modified to include things like, Range Rover brakes. The thread commentators were firmly of the opinion that a modified UK spec car remains a UK spec car irrespective of the modifications to the car spec. A potentially interesting discussion topic that never evolved out of that thread is what constitutes a UK or J spec car, or one that is simply a hybrid so lets have a go. For me personally, I'll state up front, I'm a lover of stock. I'm even searching for a good set of 16 inch original boring alloys to sit in the garage to get my car back to stock. The car is all matching numbers; original paint, all original running gear, original engine, seats, steering wheel. Everything original that hasn't worn out. So what exactly does constitute a UK spec car and a J spec car? Seeing they all came out of the same Toyota Motomachi plant, does it just come down to where the car happened to be first registered or does it actually come down to the integrity to the original specification as it left the factory? How I see it and I would apply this outlook were I looking to buy another Supras, but I've just blown a big wedge on importing a Ford Mustang from the US so that's not likely, is that you have UK spec cars, J spec cars and then the modified Supras that could have been arrived at just as easily from either starting platform. Three distinct groups. Another viewpoint offered up is that you either have UK spec or J spec cars, modified or stock is irrelevant, end of. Bearing in mind anything UK spec in the Supra World gains a price premium it is an important claim to make but how justified and justifiable is to apply that claim on car that isn't true to its original specification? The easy answer of course is that it depends on the mods, does Range Rover brakes cut it or is that just down to personal interpretation? From my personal viewpoint, the only possible advantage a modified UK registered Supra has over a similar spec modified grey import Supra is that the UK registered vehicle could, one day, be returned to its UK original spec. So, are there two just specifications of Supras in the UK, UK spec and J spec? Effectively has UK spec become synonymous with UK first registered and really no longer has anything to do with the actual cars running specification. Or should we really not just acknowledge that there are actually three specification classes; UK spec, J spec and modified spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_p Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 TL;DR J-Spec - Made for and sold in Japan Market UK Spec - Made for and sold in UK Market EU Spec - Made for and sold in mainland EU market US Spec - Made for and sold in US market. etc That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesmark Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 TL;DR J-Spec - Made for and sold in Japan Market UK Spec - Made for and sold in UK Market EU Spec - Made for and sold in mainland EU market US Spec - Made for and sold in US market. etc That is all. This. Very straight forward and self explanatory. Actually surprised that this is questioned. I guess the only grey area would be a Supra that has parts from J-Spec and UK spec, but even then I think you go on the chassis (may be wrong). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Uk's have a whole different VIN/Chassis sequence, so that's the determining factor in my book... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cered Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 And of course J-Spec cars on sale in the UK or EU are originally from Japan so imported. Can spot the UK ones as they have the bonnet scoops. I think the majority of Supras in the UK are J-Spec/imports of various vintage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc92 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 They have different style VINs too don't they? So you could stick all the UK things on an import and vice versa but it'll still be an import on the VIN. Could be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 J-spec = little rust UK-spec = lots of rust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Does this really need another thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazuk Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 TL;DR J-Spec - Made for and sold in Japan Market UK Spec - Made for and sold in UK Market EU Spec - Made for and sold in mainland EU market US Spec - Made for and sold in US market. etc That is all. As above. If I made a jspec look like a UK spec, it would still be a jspec, and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 [And of course J-Spec cars on sale in the UK or EU are originally from Japan so imported. That's the point I'm trying to get across. All Supras were exported from Japan. All Supras came out of the same factory. The only difference was the market specific specification and the UK specification is judged favourably with a price premium. Surely, if you change the specification away from stock the car is no longer market specification specific and the further you move away from stock the more 'generic' the vehicle becomes. There is essentially no difference to a modified Supra running the roads in Japan or the UK as the modifications can be easily achieved from any original market specific platform. It appears the UK premium for a modified car must lie solely in the VIN number though I can't find any reference to UK registered vehicle's being allocated unique numbers or a closed sequence of VIN numbers. I assume they must have otherwise it'd be very difficult to prove a vehicle was UK first registered beyond the information recorded on the vehicles V5 and that isn't a document that you could rely upon to carry totally accurate information. So, it is looking like it comes down to how much is a VIN stamp worth and how easily a VIN can be identified to a specific market specification product? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 There are several mechanical differences that are identified by U.K. or J spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 It's related to the vin, from this perspective they are different cars entirely. It does not matter if it's had parts changed or not. I think the question in this thread is what you "THINK" a UK spec is. IE your view of removing a UK spec part, makes the car less UK spec, in some views possibly however in reality, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 I think the question in this thread is what you "THINK" a UK spec is. IE your view of removing a UK spec part, makes the car less UK spec, in some views possibly however in reality, no. It essentially comes down to the word specification. A specification is fixed, a modification to a specification is something entirely different; outside of the specification. So a modified UK spec Supra is really something that was originally a UK spec car but cannot really claim to be a UK spec car any longer. Its a complete bastardisation of the meaning of the word specification to claim otherwise. Seems UK spec has transitioned to now mean only a Supra that was originally UK spec, but that was a long time ago. Which is fine, only trading standards could possibly object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 So a modified UK spec Supra is really something that was originally a UK spec car but cannot really claim to be a UK spec car any longer. In your opinion. It's just a modified UK car to me, the extent of which could effect value but not ultimate origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest markolambo Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Ok so the key is it matters in the onward selling price otherwise there would be no debate. Whats the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 By your meaning, there would not be a UK spec car in the UK, including yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjy Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 So if I fit UK Turbo's, head, injectors, EGR system, bigger brakes, change the lights, swap some interior goodies, I can claim my J-Spec car is a UK-Spec and ask more money for it? Yes - That's how stupid this thread is. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_p Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 It essentially comes down to the word specification. A specification is fixed, a modification to a specification is something entirely different; outside of the specification. So a modified UK spec Supra is really something that was originally a UK spec car but cannot really claim to be a UK spec car any longer. Its a complete bastardisation of the meaning of the word specification to claim otherwise. Seems UK spec has transitioned to now mean only a Supra that was originally UK spec, but that was a long time ago. Which is fine, only trading standards could possibly object. Jeebus! It's like trying to explain how an engine works to my missus! I'm going to be as simple as I possibly can here. If a car is 'UK Spec', it was manufactured for the UK market and sold through an official UK Toyota Dealership. People may change certain parts like wheels for 'aftermarket' parts that were made outside of Toyota to make the car 'not-standard'. However this doesn't mean that miraculously the car was no longer sold new in the UK, the first few years of servicing just vanishes and all the english writing suddenly morphs into Japanese. I genuinely laughed at the trading standards remark, why don't buy a load of J-Spec supras, put some UK parts on them and sell them as 'UK Spec', let me know how you get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitch79 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 So if I fit UK Turbo's, head, injectors, EGR system, bigger brakes, change the lights, swap some interior goodies, I can claim my J-Spec car is a UK-Spec and ask more money for it? Yes - That's how stupid this thread is. HTH. Yup [emoji106] I'm ****** though, mines a right mongrel, J-spec, euro spec hood scoop, US side repeaters, hybrid turbos, and Evo 6 seats! Must only be worth 2k [emoji15][emoji31][emoji22] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 Ok so the key is it matters in the onward selling price otherwise there would be no debate. Whats the difference I think its an interesting question to pose but some owners, probably more those with more modified cars, seem to prefer it isn't. It is all down to price and as all Supras were all were born in the same factory the price is purely specification driven, the rarer and more exclusive the specification then the more valued it is. That's a very constant rule in anything collectable. Once you deviate from the original specification you do a certain amount of harm to the value, hopefully any upgrades can more than overcome the harm and add value at least in the short term. I'll venture though, the last ever remaining Supra Mk4 anywhere in the World will be a nut and bolt on specification Supra, long after all the modified ones have either been returned to stock or hit the crusher. So I for one would never regard a modified Supra as anything but a drivers car. Whereas, I regard stock Surpras as a drivers car, which is why I bought one 18 years ago, but its increasingly becoming a collectable and investable car. Anyone seeking a Supra as a long term investment may not be aware that an advertised UK spec car is anything but a UK spec car. Then you could ask is that their fault for not knowing the product or the advertisers fault or a collective who give a toss fault. Down the road, you'll be talking big money difference though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest markolambo Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Does that make all jap cars refugees and as such we should give them a council garage and super premium fuel free as we pity them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 Jeebus! It's like trying to explain how an engine works to my missus! why don't buy a load of J-Spec supras, put some UK parts on them and sell them as 'UK Spec', let me know how you get on. You are still struggling to work it out. That variant would be a modified J Spec and would fit in the 'modified Supra' class. It wouldn't be original spec as it left the factory. Neither is a modified UK spec, that isn't original spec as it left the factory. Its the word spec that has lost its meaning amongst owners. A spec cannot be changed, its fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 Does that make all jap cars refugees and as such we should give them a council garage and super premium fuel free as we pity them? All Surpas anywhere in the World outside of Japan and jap refugees. I'll take the free fuel though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjy Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Insurance companies view them differently too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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