Sanya Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Hi guys, I wanted to discuss the above topic which is: In the current market where decent TT is 9-10k and TT6 13-16k is it becoming more economical to buy a decent NA and NA-T it? One can source out a good manual for 5-6k how much is the NA-T Conversion fitted? Thank you for your part in the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 There's a lot of variables involved in the discussion really so it's hard to give a definitive answer. If you want to go fast for as little money as possible, then yes, buying an NA and doing an NA-T conversion CAN be a good option. But you have to do your research and be careful. It could also be a lot more expensive than just buying a TT6. Again, if we're talking money saving you would be looking along the lines of an XS Power kit and putting it into a garage for the drive in drive out service. Your power would also be capped at around 400hp without spending big bucks on the next phase. So you're capped around BPU, maybe a little more. This is purely in my experience but price up what you think an NA-T conversion will cost you all in......then double it. You'll be amazed at all the little things that need doing and with Toyota discontinuing a lot of OEM parts, they rack up quite a bill. A TT6 has the power for a fixed price, an NA-T is a gamble that could be good or bad on the wallet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 A manual isn't a great choice for NA-T, would much rather a hybridised auto and run a nice reliable 500hp. At this budget and power level I would be running a cast manifold and a good used turbo, not a cheap tubular kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackyBoi Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 There's a lot of variables involved in the discussion really so it's hard to give a definitive answer. If you want to go fast for as little money as possible, then yes, buying an NA and doing an NA-T conversion CAN be a good option. But you have to do your research and be careful. It could also be a lot more expensive than just buying a TT6. Again, if we're talking money saving you would be looking along the lines of an XS Power kit and putting it into a garage for the drive in drive out service. Your power would also be capped at around 400hp without spending big bucks on the next phase. So you're capped around BPU, maybe a little more. This is purely in my experience but price up what you think an NA-T conversion will cost you all in......then double it. You'll be amazed at all the little things that need doing and with Toyota discontinuing a lot of OEM parts, they rack up quite a bill. A TT6 has the power for a fixed price, an NA-T is a gamble that could be good or bad on the wallet This. When having a conversion like this done you notice lots of parts which ideally need to be replaced, if not whilst it's in the garage then once you have it back. Off the top of my head I went about 3k over my budget all due to unexpected parts which needed changing/adding, and this was on a mint TT6 import. So budget your build wisely and you might see that it's more sensible to go TT straight away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanya Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Have anyone calculated their full NA-T conversion price including the unexpected bills? It would be interesting to estimate the price with someone who allready went through this and finished the build. (if it EVER can be finished) Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Have anyone calculated their full NA-T conversion price including the unexpected bills? It would be interesting to estimate the price with someone who allready went through this and finished the build. (if it EVER can be finished) Thanks. I must be knocking on the door of 8k easily and I just need my mapped tweaked for it to be finished. I tried not to cut corners and buy good branded parts throughout though. Spec's in my sigs link to build thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I'd be going over the suspension and brakes first, that could cost a pretty penny before you start upping the power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Most MKIV's are of the age and mileage where the first thing to do is an engine rebuild, nailing a turbo on an elderly high mileage N/A is going to be risky without a refresh first. It will make one hell of an expensive mongrel though, and any potential future investment gains will come from unmolested TT's, both auto and manual, but especially the manuals. When and if the MKIV becomes truly collectable, which, IMO is doubtful, people will always want virgin, low mileage, immaculate examples, or those that have had a proper professional rebuild with OE parts. They'll never be as desirable as the "bedroom poster" cars like rare Ferraris, Lamborghinis or RS Porsches in my opinion. Seems a good way to burn money to me. I may be wrong, I never cease to be amazed what people pay for classics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 No one on a budget will trade a turbo conversion for suspension and brakes. I know that sounds backwards, but it's just realistic. People don't. At 220hp (if you're lucky) uprating the brakes and suspension do feel a bit pointless. A cheap set of decent shocks and some fast road pads would do the trick. Even with decent items, worn joints and lack of geo setup would make it pointless anyway. NA-t if you do it yourself will always be cheaper than TT. Always. But they don't hold their value, have rarer issues with (ignition), have less upgrades, and for anything above 350hp it'll brake stuff. I spent the cost of a decent 6speed TT within the first two years of owning my NA. To buy it, and turbo it, 350-400 will always be cheaper (unless you buy a high millage auto TT). After 450hp it'll cost more. You're need parts which are less common and you have to REPLACE your whole transmission setup if your manual. I don't think the end cost is cheaper in the long run. For someone who wasn't able to do many of the things myself, it turned up very expensive. From someone who has spent more on his NA-t than most NA owners have, my advice is if you can't do 80% the work yourself it definitely isn't worth the hassle and the long term cost savings can vanish. That said, I bought a spare engine for £70. If you can do the work yourself, swap in a decent transmission conversion (for your goals) and install a nice GTE head with a GE bottom, you've the best reliable and cost saving setup. If you bought the wrong car, just buy a TT. All the ball ache I've had with my R154 part sourcing and getting someone to map an ECU older than I am just a huge pain in the ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evinX Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 They'll never be as desirable as the "bedroom poster" cars like rare Ferraris, Lamborghinis or RS Porsches They've been a bedroom poster for me for 13 years now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 You need to up the ante then, nothing lesser than a Renoir here Pity it's a print... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie_k83 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Most MKIV's are of the age and mileage where the first thing to do is an engine rebuild, nailing a turbo on an elderly high mileage N/A is going to be risky without a refresh first. My thoughts too, i considered an NA-T but pricing up everything from the Turbo bits to the general overhauling of the Engine quickly stacks up the £££'s (Even for me getting cost price on parts) But here i am blowing my money on an ITB build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanya Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 I must be knocking on the door of 8k easily and I just need my mapped tweaked for it to be finished. I tried not to cut corners and buy good branded parts throughout though. Spec's in my sigs link to build thread Surely in todays prices even a £10k smart conversion does not sound that bad, only if it is done according high standards. Thank you everyone for a reply, makes you think about all the aspects. On one hand Originality is the main factor, on the other hand a conversion would achieve 400-450bhp (according what ive read and what you have replied) which would requime more investment on a TT. Am I right to say that if you want a good looking, powerful car and you are not interested in it being stock looking the NA-T is an option, however if you want an original car as an investment you should stick with a TT? By the way how relyable are NA-Ts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I would never consider rebuilding an engine for an NA-T build, you could buy 20 used NA engines for the cost of building one. I think I would probably go for one out a VVTi GS300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh42 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I would never consider rebuilding an engine for an NA-T build, you could buy 20 used NA engines for the cost of building one. I think I would probably go for one out a VVTi GS300. I must be crazy then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 At the very least a proper leakdown test and a set of valve stem seals, and a close examination of oil pressure speed of rise after a cold start 9cheap and cheerful way of getting a handle on oil pump condition and bearing clearances. if someone does rebuild it would be madness not to rebore and fit forged lower compression pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprakeith Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I purchased my N/A supra with the intent on doing the na-t conversion as couldn't afford tt manual and don't want an auto. I have spare engine that cost me nothing and will fit rebuild block next year with tt Pistons for less than 1k. Then can fit turbo kit and run about 450bhp so well within the gearbox limit of 500ish. Then use my nos system to push me to about 550bhp which is plenty for what I want car for. I think it's down to what people want they car for, I would love a mental 800bhp monster but can't really use its full power on the roads so bit of waste spending all the money for something can't use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Supes Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Isn't there a garage that offers a drive in/drive out NA-t conversion for around 3k? Forgotten their name now, but I recall people rating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_jekyll Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Not again please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Supes Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Not again please Oh sorry, I genuinely didn't know it was you... but now I see your signature... Like I said, genuinely wasn't trying to kick the hornets nest. It was something Sabrina mentioned to me as she was interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_jekyll Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Oh sorry, I genuinely didn't know it was you... but now I see your signature... Like I said, genuinely wasn't trying to kick the hornets nest. It was something Sabrina mentioned to me as she was interested. Lol no worries. I'm here purely as a supra enthusiast to enjoy ownership. I know nothing of the mechanics of the cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbiemercman Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 My NA has covered 42,000 miles from when i bought it new, so no rebuild required, also i have researched this subject over the past months and IMHO the most important thing as with everything else is to go to an expert with a good CV, with lots of examples and experience. Also i would have to accept that the original tt's are much more robust than a NA/T, but the expensive bit below the cylinder head is the same as the NA's. If you drive the lump well and only thrash it where required then the NA/t is a "no brainer" for me, bit like looking after your wife / partner. Mine is in surgery at the "doctors" (Fred), and each day i look forward to it's coming home. My brother bought a tt at the same time as i bought mine, brand new, he has only 39,000 miles on it, but post NA?T and mine being a manual as well, then it will be interesting, it's all good fun for habitual petrol heads. herbiemercman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitbox Junkie Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Lol no worries. I'm here purely as a supra enthusiast to enjoy ownership. I know nothing of the mechanics of the cars when I see na-t I always think of you is this creepy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattP Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 My NA has covered 42,000 miles from when i bought it new, so no rebuild required, also i have researched this subject over the past months and IMHO the most important thing as with everything else is to go to an expert with a good CV, with lots of examples and experience. Also i would have to accept that the original tt's are much more robust than a NA/T, but the expensive bit below the cylinder head is the same as the NA's. If you drive the lump well and only thrash it where required then the NA/t is a "no brainer" for me, bit like looking after your wife / partner. Mine is in surgery at the "doctors" (Fred), and each day i look forward to it's coming home. My brother bought a tt at the same time as i bought mine, brand new, he has only 39,000 miles on it, but post NA?T and mine being a manual as well, then it will be interesting, it's all good fun for habitual petrol heads. herbiemercman. The bit below the cylinder head is slightly different... TT has different pistons and oil squirters are fitted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I originally bought a UK TT, but the person who had it before me kinda...well let's just say it needed allot of work to put right and it would have been very pricey, whilst I was deciding what to do I went out in a friends NA-T and was shocked how well they perform, put the power down and how much money it can be done for, or how little I should say...so I cut my losses on the UK TT and purchased an NA....I'm sure for big power it's better to go TT but with the way everything is going up in price lately if all you want is 400ish then I think NA-T is the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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