j_jza80 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Been said a few times, but they are not fleaing for a safer place for their family etc etc, if that were true most have travelled through at least 2 or 3 1st world countries where they would be safe, have opportunity to work and make a decent living. So why don't they stop there?? They are targeting the UK as we are seen as soft, easy to get in and we give you loads of free help and support when you get here! I agree that these migrants ARE economic/social migrants, and not refugees. But I don't think they come here for the benefits system, and I doubt they think it is easy. I think they come here because: 1) Like most places in the world, they come from countries where English is taught and spoken as the secondary language. 2) There are already established sub communities of people who share their nationality/faith, sometimes friends and family 3) England (and it is England they are primarily targeting) is portrayed as wealthy, prestigious and safe in international media and entertainment 4) few opportunities at home I don't blame them, and if I were in their situation I would possibly do the same thing. We don't have any obligation to help migrants. It is true that our colonial past has contributed to this situation, namely for making English the universal language, but we should not have to pay for the sins of our forefathers. If every country around the world started practicing a policy of 'an eye for an eye', the world would be blind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Passed through Calais the other day and it was a dump. Half the roads closed and streets completely littered with rubbish and debris. To be honest, it just looked like the french public and security didn't give a s*** what so ever. I went to a few of the Paris suburbs the other week while trying to find a hotel near Le Bourget. It was unrecognizable from my visit 9 years ago. 20 years ago I remember visiting Le Bourget, the area was typical in its vibrant Parisian 'cafe culture'. It is far removed from that now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 My great grandfather apparently used to espouse that "Education of the working man and the savages will come back to haunt their teachers and their offspring". Hmmm, seems he may have had a point Imagine a politician saying such a thing today, how times change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Obviously times haven't changed enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Bullitt Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Since when did the UK sign up to be the solver of all other countries problems? It barely has enough resources to look after it's own let alone poor uneducated immigrants from other countries. A points system similar to Australia, Canada & New Zealand is long over due, if they can ask immigrants what positive influence they will bring to their community why can't we? Why can't we expect a certain level of Education, Adaptability (level of eduction), Language Ability (reading, writing, speaking, listening), Secondary Language (reading, writing, speaking, listening), Work Experience (skilled worker & time served) and also ask if you have been convicted of a criminal offence? As asking immigrants what positive influences/aspects they will bring to the UK (before allowing entry) seems to offend some on here how about just arming our boarder control agents or employing ex-military sharp shooters to patrol the boarders? We could paint a red line on Calais side of the tunnel and issue them with a "shoot to kill" policy, anyone crossing the line becomes fair game. I guess you would really see how desperate they are to enter the UK then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 They'd probably still come. A huge percentage will have been facing snipers for most of their lives, despite what the daily fail brigade say. Honestly, snipers. Monumental facepalm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I agree! I'm going to do something and write on a forum angrily before going about my daily business as usual. Anyone remember this scene from Life of Brian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Bullitt Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Honestly, snipers. Monumental facepalm. I have one word, Egregious. This topic is clearly so entrenched with you that you can't even make out a tongue in cheek comment that should not be taken at face value. May I politely suggest Lemsip and a W*@k to help you calm down It's the answer to most of life problems that many forum members will attest to, who knows it may even be the answer to the immigration problem that we are all seeking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I have one word, Egregious. This topic is clearly so entrenched with you that you can't even make out a tongue in cheek comment that should not be taken at face value. Unfortunately your tongue in cheek point of view is seen by many as an acceptable solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I agree! I'm going to do something and write on a forum angrily before going about my daily business as usual. Anyone remember this scene from Life of Brian? That's good! Or you could, you know, actually do something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 There's an e-petition about having no confidence in Cameron's handling of the Calais Crisis: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/105402 Signed that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Luckily in 20 or so years most people with that point of view will have died out. Lucky for who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Lucky for who? Immigrants that want to take advantage of our soft rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Immigrants that want to take advantage of our soft rules? Yep & the bleeding hearts who think we should feed them, house them & give them money just for coming here????? When what we & the the rest of europe should be doing is take them straght back where they came from. Or anywhere close to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I found this and interesting read... http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jun/08/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I found this and interesting read... http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jun/08/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices The problem with that article is that it describes refugees. These people are not refugees, they're migrants. Big difference. They aren't escaping persecution, when I was in France a few weeks ago it did not resemble a war zone, and people were not fearing for their lives (except, perhaps the British truck drivers) How many safe countries do you think they have crossed to reach Calais? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Isn't that article from 2002? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 The problem with that article is that it describes refugees. These people are not refugees, they're migrants. Big difference. They aren't escaping persecution, when I was in France a few weeks ago it did not resemble a war zone, and people were not fearing for their lives (except, perhaps the British truck drivers) How many safe countries do you think they have crossed to reach Calais? My point exactly, get out of the country your fleeing to the closest safe country where you have job prospects. Not trek half way across the world through 3 1st world countries just to get to the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I just found it interesting, and I doubt the people in England thought the Jews were refugees in the mid thirties prior to the war, lots of the old (not sure if that's relevant) article is about how we are more sympathetic after the event, compared to the almost hostility that's common throughout history when it's actually happening. I'm just pointing out that the views were the same back then, and looking back in retrospect more think we should have been open to accepting more Jews and feel bad that we didn't. I think it's a bit churlish to say these people are all just on the make, after a piece of the benefits cake etc I agree that you can't just open borders up too, I'm not saying there is any easy solution but I do feel that labelling them all thieves or freeloaders just serves to ease the conscience of the masses and convinces them that none are worthy of entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT Paul Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Close the borders to them.. refuse them money, send them back to france they let them through and the f@$king EU one big hole. Why should i go to work to pay for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I just found it interesting, and I doubt the people in England thought the Jews were refugees in the mid thirties prior to the war, lots of the old (not sure if that's relevant) article is about how we are more sympathetic after the event, compared to the almost hostility that's common throughout history when it's actually happening. I'm just pointing out that the views were the same back then, and looking back in retrospect more think we should have been open to accepting more Jews and feel bad that we didn't. I think it's a bit churlish to say these people are all just on the make, after a piece of the benefits cake etc I agree that you can't just open borders up too, I'm not saying there is any easy solution but I do feel that labelling them all thieves or freeloaders just serves to ease the conscience of the masses and convinces them that none are worthy of entry. It's a very different situation. The Jews started fleeing Germany because the 'Brown Shirts' and then later the SS were harassing, attacking and even killing Jews, and there was national anti Jewish propaganda. We had a moral obligation to accept many of them then, as they were from our neighboring countries. This whole thing about the migrants in Calais coming here for the benefits is nonsense. Some will come for that, but most will come because their are few opportunities for them at home. But equally, from what I've seen of these migrants they all seem to have money, that or they've been stealing. I hate to see people living in squalid conditions, and I appreciate that these people want to better themselves. But we are an overcrowded island, with a straining infrastructure and public services on the brink of collapse. We do need migration, but we need structured migration, that brings people in to do jobs that WE have a need for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 It's a very different situation. The Jews started fleeing Germany because the 'Brown Shirts' and then later the SS were harassing, attacking and even killing Jews, and there was national anti Jewish propaganda. We had a moral obligation to accept many of them then, as they were from our neighboring countries. This whole thing about the migrants in Calais coming here for the benefits is nonsense. Some will come for that, but most will come because their are few opportunities for them at home. But equally, from what I've seen of these migrants they all seem to have money, that or they've been stealing. I hate to see people living in squalid conditions, and I appreciate that these people want to better themselves. But we are an overcrowded island, with a straining infrastructure and public services on the brink of collapse. We do need migration, but we need structured migration, that brings people in to do jobs that WE have a need for. The whole situation is very well manipulated by the media though. When they claimed 2000 attempted to go through the chunnel the other day, that was actually the same 150/200 or so trying multiple times. Regardless of the stance on that it still goes to show how this whole subject is being spun. For what it's worth, if we were to let them all in our population would increase (I have the source bookmarked on mobile somewhere) by about 0.000078%. So again the idea from certain sections of the media that our population would 'explode' are a bit of an emotive exaggeration. I watched a video the other night of an interview with a young lad under 10, who could barely walk because his ankle was buggered. He came with his mother from Syria to get away from the war. Most people don't give a crap which is maybe a symptom of our Island mentality, but personally I'm just a little uncomfortable with calling people like that a swarm, horde, or part of a migrant crisis. The whole subject has been dehumanised. I could go into it more and cite sources and link some recent very good and realistic articles (you can find them in the Guardian and the Independent) but to be honest I turned notifications off from this thread. It'll only end up going one way but hey ho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 The whole situation is very well manipulated by the media though. When they claimed 2000 attempted to go through the chunnel the other day, that was actually the same 150/200 or so trying multiple times. Regardless of the stance on that it still goes to show how this whole subject is being spun. For what it's worth, if we were to let them all in our population would increase (I have the source bookmarked on mobile somewhere) by about 0.000078%. So again the idea from certain sections of the media that our population would 'explode' are a bit of an emotive exaggeration. I watched a video the other night of an interview with a young lad under 10, who could barely walk because his ankle was buggered. He came with his mother from Syria to get away from the war. Most people don't give a crap which is maybe a symptom of our Island mentality, but personally I'm just a little uncomfortable with calling people like that a swarm, horde, or part of a migrant crisis. The whole subject has been dehumanised. I could go into it more and cite sources and link some recent very good and realistic articles (you can find them in the Guardian and the Independent) but to be honest I turned notifications off from this thread. It'll only end up going one way but hey ho. "Swarm: 1.2 (a swarm/swarms of) A large number of people or things: a swarm of journalists" http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/swarm I don't take pleasure in standing up for Cameron, but in this case his use of language was actually correct, and justified. Left wing groups seized upon an opportunity to demonize Cameron, but it has spectacularly backfired. If the mother and son in your example are so desperate, why haven't they claimed asylum in Greece, Italy or France? They must have traveled through all of those countries to get to Calais. Do you honestly believe those 5000 would be the last? Many people think it would simply be an open invitation, which literally tens of thousands would try to claim. Just like when the EU migration restrictions for Poland were dropped. We received 10x the estimated total number in the first year alone, and changed the culture of the country in the process. And in my opinion, they started dehumanizing themselves when they pelted our truckers with rocks, have vandalized literally hundreds of trucks by using knives on the curtains, wrecked £???? of fencing that we pay for. etc, etc. There is also the not so minor matter of 'brain drain'. Who will try to improve the countries these people have come from if they won't? We can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT Paul Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Swarm sums it up. They cause havok and upset the natural balance. They are a pain in the ass and not my problem so keep them out... we got enough here already claiming benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitbox Junkie Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I heard that when argueING usually the nazis pop up and when they do the person who mentioned the. Has lost the arguement Back to the OP. SendING more fences and cameras? That is clearly going to deter the migrants..... What will sending the army in do? Not as if they can use live ammo ect. Perfect world would be as soon as they get caught chuck then on a bus and move them back to there country's boarder or.to a country that will and can take them. But this all costs the tax payer money's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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