Lee_e Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Hey guys.. a few weeks ago I went through some small back roads and to say they where a bit ropey would be an understatement.. Any way .. ever since I drove down those roads my car has a metallic clunk coming from the rear passenger side everyone I go over a substantial bump.. and when going over said bumps the car seems to want to twitch to a certain direction.. really does feel like it jumps to the left or right over any bump. Now driving home earlier today in the wet .. the car was almost undrivable... rear felt like it was swaying about all over the place and I felt like I was crabbing along at some points. When in the dry areas closer to home .. no crabbing or swaying (unless I go over bumps ) and it generally feels OK. Plenty of tread on tires. When looking at the rear of the car the 2 rear wheels seem very angled.. a bit like // \\ . I'm going to get the alignment looked at tomorrow and the tracking but what else could it be ? Haven't changed anything on the suspension or wheels. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_e Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I had it on a ramp last week and checked for play and there is a tiny bit of a noise when wheel is held at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock. . We suspected wheel bearing but that surely wouldn't make the car that bad to drive in the wet vs dry !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignum Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Could be a bush or ball joint gone or even an arm bolt loose. Edit, find one of those proper mot ramps that rocks the car around, that`ll find it! Edited July 12, 2015 by bignum (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihontoman Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 uuum, something VERY wrong with suspension? it could be shock absorbers' springs that just died (broke for example). if something else broke, you would get an accident. also, maybe something got loose enough to get out of alignment, but not loose enough for that part to just fall off... I Once broke a spring on an old Mitsubishi pajero. 2 coils just snapped at the bottom. it got that slammed look on one side, but didn't quite like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mark Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I've had a couple of rear suspension camber bolts knock from not being tight enough. Meant that the rear wheel was moving in and out over bumps and corners. I've had my suspension set up twice by garage in last few weeks and both times they didn't tighten the bolts tight enough. But I've also stripped the thread off of two of them when torquing them up so be carefull either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_e Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I hope it's something as simple as a loose bolt or just might of been knocked out of alignment.. the road was piss poor lol had no alternative but to go down there. I will get it checked out tomorrow and see whats happening.. the rear wheels look very "stanced" as they say.. just got the Mrs to bob up and down on the rear boot and all I can hear is a few rubber bushes squeeking but nothing out of the ordinary. I suspect it's down to the camber. Didn't do it before I went down that road. The lack of feel and grip in the wet would also lead me to believe alot of the tyre isn't hitting the road or different portions of the rear wheels are tou ching leading to the swaying. I could be massively wrong though lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihontoman Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 hmm, it either was a VERY bumpy road, or the bolts were not tight enough to get that loose (if that is the case). as for the wheel hubs - mine has faulty wheel bearings (New NSK bearings are waiting to go in), and they do have pretty big play, but it doesn't do anything of the sort your car does... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) The scenario you describe is text book typical of poor rear toe control, so check the rear toe control arm bushes and ball joints and the arms' adjusters. Rear hub bearing wear would need to be pretty chronic to have such an effect. You did check for play with the handbrake OFF didn't you? Ideally with the brake pads pushed back, too, unless you have the physique of Serena Williams. Camber side to side variance, or incorrect set up, so long as it's not randomly moving as you drive, has far less effect on directional stability. But anything hat allows one or both rear wheels to adopt different toe as you drive has a very alarming effect that's hard to compensate for at the steering wheel. You have checked the tyre pressures though, haven't you? Low profile tyres can look fine yet have 5 PSI in them.... Edited July 12, 2015 by Chris Wilson (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_e Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Thanks for the informative reply again. I checked the tyre pressure as soon as it started doing it earlier.. it's fine in the dry(only moves about over bumps and potholes etc) .. but it's seriously undrivable in the wet .. the rear feels like.it has a mind if it's own even when driving in a straight line. scared the crap out of me on the way home until it got dry then it was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjy Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Rear hub bearing wear would need to be pretty chronic to have such an effect. You did check for play with the handbrake OFF didn't you? Ideally with the brake pads pushed back, too, unless you have the physique of Serena Williams. I checked the play Mr W. Nearside rear has very very slight play in the bearing, but I'd pass it on an MOT, so definitely not bad enough to cause poor handling. Thanks for the informative reply again. I checked the tyre pressure as soon as it started doing it earlier.. it's fine in the dry(only moves about over bumps and potholes etc) .. but it's seriously undrivable in the wet .. the rear feels like.it has a mind if it's own even when driving in a straight line. scared the crap out of me on the way home until it got dry then it was fine. When you pop up next week mate, I'll have a bit more time (I'd hope...) to take it up the road and check it over for you dude. When I collected mine, it was lashing down with rain and was seriously undrivable. Even in the dry it nearly killed me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_e Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Thanks dude... will go and get it checked for alignment etc just incase. Then on Wednesday if you have time you can check it out if it's no better bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 One rear brake severely binding can cause odd handling effects, too, but I am sure that would be spotted easily enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjy Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 One rear brake severely binding can cause odd handling effects, too, but I am sure that would be spotted easily enough. All wheels spin nice and freely. I'll have all the wheels off and have a good nose about in the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supraleeturbo Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I had this on my car couple months back and it was the rear upper arm mate, so I did the arm and bearing at the same time, not a cheap fix but a must Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_e Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Thanks guys ..your help is very appreciated ..How would you check for play or diagnose the arm and bearing being the culprit. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 On some cars I bolt a steel bar to the hub studs, about 6 feet long, and apply a LOT of leverage in the 9 to 3 o'clock plane. You could perhaps sacrifice a steel space saver and weld a bar to it? Or weld an alloy beam onto an old ally rim. You can't duplicate road forces by hand at the tyre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjy Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 On some cars I bolt a steel bar to the hub studs, about 6 feet long, and apply a LOT of leverage in the 9 to 3 o'clock plane. You could perhaps sacrifice a steel space saver and weld a bar to it? Or weld an alloy beam onto an old ally rim. You can't duplicate road forces by hand at the tyre. Not a bad shout that. I've got a spare space saver. If there's enough spaces between MOT's when it comes over, I'll reverse it onto the MOT shaker plates and give it a wobble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_e Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Sounds like a plan mate.. would help me out a treat ..never knew such equipment existed haha.. goes to show how much I know lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_e Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 OK guys so went to get the tracking done this morning and there wasn't anything wrong with the tracking etc.. the guy noticed a hush has gone on one of the rear drop links, surely this wouldn't alter the feel of the car that badly ?? What are the first things I should be checking ?? I need to replace the droplinks on the rear anyway so will get them ordered up now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_e Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 OK guys so a bit of an update.. after replacing the rear tyres and it still doing the same thing. I checked the bushes and was determined to find what it could be.. With the car not jacked up I yanked the inside top of the tyre and there was a huge amount of noise and play .. I looked under the car whilst someone jigged the wheel and I located the noise to be coming from the rear toe arm .. clonks and moves about but when I grab it, the noise goes... when tapping the bottom of the bush housing .. and I mean lightly tapping ... there's a loose sound . . Do we think this could be the culprit ? It's happening on both sides .. which would lead me to believe that's why it sways about on the rear... as it's the arm that you adjust during alignment etc. . So if it's moving freely it will be sending the geometry crazy during driving ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Did you read my post #8? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_e Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 Yes I did chris.. as soon as I found out that it could be the toe arms.. I straight away remember you saying that early on... why are you always right Chris lol Would knackered bushes in the toe arms cause my symptoms then bud ? The thing I don't understand is why it was soo much worse the wet ? .. could it maybe be down to when it's dry the tyres are fighting it from going everywhere ? Then damp conditions surrender a bit more ? It's like ice in the wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 There is a design quirk in the MKIV, in my opinion, or at least a severe compromise to give a reasonable rear load space. The control arms are very close, vertically, and the toe arms are also very short. I can only assume this compromise was to give as much interior space whilst keeping the car low, and the rear hatch area a reasonably low floor. It means, in simple terms, any deficiency in the bushes or ball joints tends to give a somewhat exaggerated result. So if your toe arms are deficient, a bit of play translates to a considerable loss of rear toe control. If the rear toe changes randomly it's very hard for a driver to automatically correct, unlike toe change at the front. As you surmise, in the wet toe change has a more exaggerated effect on car control. It's a bit like towing a large caravan, when the caravan starts to try and control the car, it takes a lot of experience to correct for the rear steer effect, and not make matters worse, it's not mentally intuitive to correct for rear steer, unlike front tramlining or front self steer effects. Poor rear toe control is always bad news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_e Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 Wow.. your replies never fail to amaze me chris, always so instructive and book worthy I will buy some genuine toyota toe arms I think. Do you have any part numbers for a facelift tt vvti ? If there's any difference in facelift vs pre facelift ? Thanks for all your help bud, means alot that I can call upon the guru for sound advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Here you go, not sure which side you need, but you can see the part number for both sides here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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