Style Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I'll try keep it short and stick to details: Stock, unopened GE engine with a Whifbitz NA-T kit bolted on. 650cc injectors, walbro fuel pump on AEM EMS standalone management and other supporting mods. Car idles fine and gets off the mark but as soon as the car starts to work towards positive pressure it starts to detonate badly. The mapper played about with the timing and brought it all the way back to 5 degrees without any luck. Still getting the same issue. The garage is blaming the kit and saying that it won't work on this engine without some major ignition/timing alterations to get it to run. Now I'm pretty sure that timing wise, the engine should run fine without any adjustment from standard (10degrees I believe?) up to around 7-8psi. Anything higher than that and it will need some adjustments but nothing major. Any ideas what could be causing the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 take more timing out , but could also be the aem they have firmware issues sometimes also what aem do you have I know that aem 1 series needs a hks DLi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 I'm running the v2 version. As far as I know it shouldn't require a DLI for the v2. They took the timing all the way back to 5 degrees apparently with no luck. I'mm guessing since I'm standalone, adjusting the distributor won't have any effect? I get the feeling something has been installed wrong somewhere as it should at least run at 5degrees BTDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 if the dizzy was set wrong in the first place and your still using its as a starting point so the dizzy could be set + 10 degrees the standalone will be starting at that point .so if you retard -5 degrees the engine well still see it as +5. I'm not sure if thats the case or how they are wired to the ecu but the ecu will have to know when TDC is if not using the dizzy Thats if your still using the dizzy some N/A -T do the gte oil pump upgrade . anywho you need to find out if its even adjusting timing as all which i would of thought they would of done if they installed it ? i have read that people have had issues wiring the ecu's to the dizzy signals so could be installed wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Yeah I'm still on the dizzy dude, it's brand new OEM actually. It was replaced during the conversion. It's something you'd think a garage would know but maybe worth asking them if they reset the timing to 10degrees BTDC when they were in about it. I suppose the car wouldn't run if they hadn't. They mentioned having it up at +30degrees at one point which is rather worrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Are the injectors a confirmed matching set and if/when so, check with an oscilloscope that the injector signals are the same value . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Are the injectors a confirmed matching set and if/when so, check with an oscilloscope that the injector signals are the same value . Injectors were bought second hand on here from a forum member. He had them on his car and running fine. I can see about checking the signals on them though, thanks David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee P Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 on the AEM series one you had to set the base timing up on the ecu Not sure its the same on the V2 but worth checking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Yeah I'll mention that to them as well Lee and see what they say. When you say set up the base timing are you meaning to go in with a timing light and set the dizzy then match the ECU with the software? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee P Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Yeah I'll mention that to them as well Lee and see what they say. When you say set up the base timing are you meaning to go in with a timing light and set the dizzy then match the ECU with the software? Yes basically, on the V1 you could adjust the base timing back and forward to bring it in time with timing light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Thanks Lee I'll take note and see what they say. 10deg BTDC is standard as well isn't it? Hopefully it's something simple causing the issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I would be a little worried myself if they have to be told these basic things, are they mapping specialists or not? Being the injectors are second hand they may not have even flow which would cause det also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk4Gaz Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 On the na, does the timing have to be set up with the vehicle running in 'static mode', like on the mr2? You basically bridge e1 and te1 in the diagnostics port, with it running, and then set the ignition timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Same setup with N/A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) I would be a little worried myself if they have to be told these basic things, are they mapping specialists or not? Being the injectors are second hand they may not have even flow which would cause det also They're primarily Evo and Skyline specialists and map AEM a lot. I'm just not sure where Supra specific methods stop and general AEM methods start. Setting the timing as suggested below for example. They're bound to have done that you'd have thought. But would they know to do it that way? On the na, does the timing have to be set up with the vehicle running in 'static mode', like on the mr2? You basically bridge e1 and te1 in the diagnostics port, with it running, and then set the ignition timing. Same setup with N/A. Things like this are what I doubt the garage knows. Going in with a timing light would do the same trick wouldn't it? Edited June 30, 2015 by Style (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk4Gaz Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 No, you have to get the car in static mode, then use the timing light to obtain 10 degrees btdc. If you try and set the ignition timing without bridging the two pins in the diagnostics port, you won't be able to set it properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 dont the crank pully and the cam belt cover have markings for TDC on the N/A ? can you not just do it that way setting the dizzy with the light? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 dont the crank pully and the cam belt cover have markings for TDC on the N/A ? can you not just do it that way setting the dizzy with the light? Yes, but not until you have bridged the 2 pins in the diag port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 The bridge link is only necessary with stock ECU, this build has an AEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 The bridge link is only necessary with stock ECU, this build has an AEM. Ah, well spotted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Thanks for the help guys, I'll have a chat with the garage today and see what we can do. Getting the base timing set to 10degrees BTDC and making sure the ECU knows that as well seems to be the main point to clarify that they have covered. I'd think they would have but at this point it wouldn't surprise me. Injectors would be the next place to go. Spark plugs are brand new with the NA-T kit so they should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Just read what the software says the timing is at idle, then check that the timing light agrees. Trust the timing light..... They do *HAVE* a timing light? I know some mechanics who have never even heard of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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