novak Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Hi Everyone, Just came across this article: http://www.supracentral.com/foundation/content/induction-kit-review/ I am already full BPU but on the stock airbox. Does it make sense or I will not see those claimed gains? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novak Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Do not mind spending £160 for Apexi but will I improve anything, everyone claim stock air box is the best, anyone tested that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdavies Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 The general consensus is stick a K&N or similar panel filter in for the best results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 The general consensus is stick a K&N or similar panel filter in for the best results Agreed with the above, Stick a panel filter in and stick with the isolation of the stock airbox so you don't get the buildup of heat in the engine bay being used as warmer intake air Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_ufo Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I switched to a induction kit as my IC was fouling the stock intake although I had a 45 degree pipe I was fed up of leaks. I didnt notice any performance loss but what I did notice was the car was making alot more noise, heard the turbo spooling, gasping when releasing the throttle, if thats your sort of thing go for it. I love that noise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesmark Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I have also seen people that go for induction kit have fabricated a case for it to still utilise the cold airflow from the stock intake ducts that slot into it. For the effort of above and marginal (if at all) gains I would stick a good panel filter in the stock airbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novak Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Thanks. what panel filter is the best to go for? I do not like KN because of oil they are using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Thanks. what panel filter is the best to go for? I do not like KN because of oil they are using. I believe apexi and hks do one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_ufo Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I have a Blitz one for sale if interested let me know £25 delivered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Carroll Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Agreed with the above, Stick a panel filter in and stick with the isolation of the stock airbox so you don't get the buildup of heat in the engine bay being used as warmer intake air This is an interesting point on turbocharged cars.... On an N/A I would preach the cold air feed thing as much as the next guy, but on a turbo car, with an intercooler? The whole point of the intercooler is to cool that intake charge, of course, you could say its all well and good making the intake charge more dense at the IC, but what about the less dense air it is pulling from the engine bay.. step 1... but then when are you using your boost? On the move... so there should be plenty of airflow into that engine bay (and much cooler than a hot engine bay sat idling). In my opinion, I would say don't worry about the 'cold air feed' issue on the Supra, especially if you have an FMIC. At least at BPU levels the IC should have no problem cooling that intake charge. I am as yet not a certified expert on the 2JZ, but I would say the real reason there is no real performance benefit to an induction kit is the fact the standard airbox should flow well enough to about 500bhp... an induction kit should help above this but at BPU, we are not there yet Go and enjoy those sounds and I don't only say this because I have an Apexi in my car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 This is an interesting point on turbocharged cars.... On an N/A I would preach the cold air feed thing as much as the next guy, but on a turbo car, with an intercooler? The whole point of the intercooler is to cool that intake charge, of course, you could say its all well and good making the intake charge more dense at the IC, but what about the less dense air it is pulling from the engine bay.. step 1... but then when are you using your boost? On the move... so there should be plenty of airflow into that engine bay (and much cooler than a hot engine bay sat idling). In my opinion, I would say don't worry about the 'cold air feed' issue on the Supra, especially if you have an FMIC. At least at BPU levels the IC should have no problem cooling that intake charge. I am as yet not a certified expert on the 2JZ, but I would say the real reason there is no real performance benefit to an induction kit is the fact the standard airbox should flow well enough to about 500bhp... an induction kit should help above this but at BPU, we are not there yet Go and enjoy those sounds and I don't only say this because I have an Apexi in my car Then why did Toyota waste time and money developing it ? I have to disagree with your statement and say a non ducted induction kit will be detrimental to your cars power due to all the hot air it will be sucking in. Even more so with a fmic as most people in fact all but a few won't have had any ducting put in to make the inter cooler properly effective. A bpu with a stock air box and a properly ducted smic / fmic will make more power than a the same bpu with an induction kit and a fmic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 It will also have been designed to suppress the intake noise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Carroll Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 It is much more cost effective to develop an injection moulded box which can be commonised across car lines with a common panel filter cross car lines than to develop an induction kit (which could be designed as a common part, but then you are paying ALOT of money on each vehicle that doesn't have the power output and therefore need the flow capability of, for example, the 2JZ). The primary reasons any OEM designs a part/system the way it does are: 1)cost 2)timing in terms of testing/development time 3)purpose of use A standard intake system is a cost effective way of achieving the desired performance of a standard car. Plus it is designed to reduce induction noise as j_jza80 says And why would an FMIC not be working effectively? Its positioned at the front of the vehicle so should be working fine? However, I would agree that the more power (and therefore heat) you are producing, the more demand you will place on the IC, so a cold air feed is likely to be beneficial above BPU, but I would still say its more of a luxury... Anyway, apart from the first bit, this is just my image... its good to have differing opinions! Makes each car a little different.. otherwise we wouldn't have anything to compare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 It is much more cost effective to develop an injection moulded box which can be commonised across car lines with a common panel filter cross car lines than to develop an induction kit (which could be designed as a common part, but then you are paying ALOT of money on each vehicle that doesn't have the power output and therefore need the flow capability of, for example, the 2JZ). The primary reasons any OEM designs a part/system the way it does are: 1)cost 2)timing in terms of testing/development time 3)purpose of use A standard intake system is a cost effective way of achieving the desired performance of a standard car. Plus it is designed to reduce induction noise as j_jza80 says And why would an FMIC not be working effectively? Its positioned at the front of the vehicle so should be working fine? However, I would agree that the more power (and therefore heat) you are producing, the more demand you will place on the IC, so a cold air feed is likely to be beneficial above BPU, but I would still say its more of a luxury... Anyway, apart from the first bit, this is just my image... its good to have differing opinions! Makes each car a little different.. otherwise we wouldn't have anything to compare! Because without proper ducting air will just flow around the inter cooler rather than through it which sort of defeats the point. The stock ducted smic is far more effective providing it's in good shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Carroll Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Because without proper ducting air will just flow around the inter cooler rather than through it which sort of defeats the point. The stock ducted smic is far more effective providing it's in good shape. Thats a good point. makes me curious however if the additional capacity and in theory better position of a larger fmic is truly outdone by the stock ducted smic and by how large a ratio. And then on top of that, what improvement does good ducting give an fmic over a non ducted fmic... however, I would still hedge my bets that there is no really advantage either way below say 500bhp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 A home made pressure drop gauge made with coloured water in clear plastic tubing ( a manometer) will *TELL* you if the stock filter or air box is restrictive. No pub talk, no guessing, costs nowt to make, and you amaze your friends with factual info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordy.r Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 A home made pressure drop gauge made with coloured water in clear plastic tubing ( a manometer) will *TELL* you if the stock filter or air box is restrictive. No pub talk, no guessing, costs nowt to make, and you amaze your friends with factual info And this is why we should renew his trader membership! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novak Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 I might try to do a dyno run with stock airbox and Apexi to compare. According to the article in the first post induction is better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I want to see what engine dyno they used that will accurately give a 1 BHP resolution. Or even a 13 BHP one at over 280 BHP readings. Even 13 BHP resolution over the period to test several filters is very good indeed. And I'd like to see the man who believes $200 on a 13 BHP gain on a 3 litre twin turbo is a sensible investment even if the figures are to be believed... I call bull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novak Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 Hey the In could do it for the roar effect haha. Still undecided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Although the FMIC does provide some denser air on the move even not ducted, the engine bay is pretty hot on a warm day so as mentioned it will have an effect on the performance as the IK will soak up some of that warm heat. Though personally the difference between the two is so minimal that it some folks might even struggle to find the performance difference. I am currently in the process of doing something similar to mine to get a bit of both worlds. https://www.speedforsale.com/supraparts/images/supa%20_maxair1.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) It is a fact that to feed your induction cold air will provide more power than feeding it hot, the problem with that seems to be that it's not trendy? http://www.designengineering.com/content/cryo2-cool-way-get-more-power Sticking a 'better' filter where it can suck 'worse' air because it looks trendy is dickthippery. That Maxair system or similar gives the best of both and gets my vote Abz. 6" ram into 4" cold intake here. Still looks trendy here. Edited July 5, 2015 by David P (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Although the FMIC does provide some denser air on the move even not ducted, the engine bay is pretty hot on a warm day so as mentioned it will have an effect on the performance as the IK will soak up some of that warm heat. Though personally the difference between the two is so minimal that it some folks might even struggle to find the performance difference. I am currently in the process of doing something similar to mine to get a bit of both worlds. https://www.speedforsale.com/supraparts/images/supa%20_maxair1.jpg I personally think if you are going to go to the effort of doing that you may as well just go a step further and cut a hole to get it in the air duct below the headlight. Absolutely no chance of sucking in hot air then and probably less effort/parts and it has to be said it sounds great without compromise to your performance. One of the things I see a lot on other people's cars is that they insist the stock airbox with both upper and lower intakes is best and then stick a carbon or stainless intercooler plate on top of the rad rendering the top intake and all the ducting at the front virtually worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novak Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 Shane I like your idea makes sense - what parts were required to complete that, pipework is custom or you managed to get some which fits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I personally think if you are going to go to the effort of doing that you may as well just go a step further and cut a hole to get it in the air duct below the headlight. Absolutely no chance of sucking in hot air then and probably less effort/parts and it has to be said it sounds great without compromise to your performance. http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q220/shaneg7ewl/Forum%20stuff/IMG-20130829-00184_zps791c9af0.jpg One of the things I see a lot on other people's cars is that they insist the stock airbox with both upper and lower intakes is best and then stick a carbon or stainless intercooler plate on top of the rad rendering the top intake and all the ducting at the front virtually worthless. My worry is the amount of crap that will suck up being so close to the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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