supra_24 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Hi guys, As you know, my supra is currently having a lot of work done at Whifbitz and has recently had the 5 speed gearbox removed. I recently sold the 5 speed gearbox to someone on the facebook sales page in working order. It was working in my car when I drove all the way to south wales and it was also tested by Whifbitz prior to dispatch and was seen to be in full working order. A week later, I have now been told that the guys mechanic has fitted the box and it now has no second gear, crunching etc. I found this a bot odd as there were no tell tell signs of it going when myself and whifbitz looked at it. No whining etc or cruching. He has now sent paypal a request that money has been taken from his account due to unortherised access to his account, which it wasnt of course as he freely sent me the money via paypal gift. He claims i have sent him a faulty box which wasnt the case. I have also been threatened that if I did not refund the box and take it back that he would tell everyone on the forum supposedly that i was a fraud, whcih I through was a bit harsh I find this all hard to believe as it was fully tested and how am I to know it was not damaged during transportation? So my question is, where do I stand? What would you do in my shoes? Really need help and advise! Regards Ash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Sorry to hear your situation What was it fitted to by the new owner ? A TT ? was it a BPU car,is it possible it was broken on the test drive by the new owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abtin90 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 As above also may be worth getting a statement/affidavit or even letter from the person at whifbitz who tested and removed the box prior to dispatch as evidence for the PayPal claim and court should it become necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_24 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 It was fitted to a NA supra. His mechanic fitted it and then test drove. The mechanic spoke to whifbitz who also told him to was working fine prior to dispatch. I am a bit lost on what to do. Any advise on this situation? I have sold many items on here and not once had any issues like this with anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsia Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 That doesn't sound like a good situation. I had something similar with my previous Supra, where I let the new owner take it on a long test drive, started it from cold etc, when all was fine. It never let me down once and I was only selling it due to buying one that already had UK brakes, and the autobox that I wanted. The new owner took it 170 miles in the direction of his home when the engine gave out, which sucked. The car never gave me any reason to believe it would ever do this and I wasn't in a position to help with a rebuild. Whilst I felt bad about it (and still do) - if you sold it and knew it was a solid bit of kit when it left you, I wouldn't worry too much. Thankfully, the person who bought my Supra has had the grace not to kick up a fuss on the forum about it (and I'm happy to see it's running once again, clearly in loving hands!) The Paypal dispute probably won't get him anywhere, as he's clearly lying about the unauthorised access. I'm sure Whifbitz won't want to get involved with any legal disputes, but it may be worth asking them to provide a quick statement saying that the gearbox was functional when it left them? Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMax2042 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 As above also may be worth getting a statement/affidavit or even letter from the person at whifbitz who tested and removed the box prior to dispatch as evidence for the PayPal claim and court should it become necessary. This = the perfect advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsia Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 This = the perfect advice That is if Whifbitz are happy to be drawn in to the dispute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris88 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Are you sure that the now damaged gearbox is actually the gearbox you sold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_24 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Are you sure that the now damaged gearbox is actually the gearbox you sold? Thats what i was thinking mate. I have responded with the following: On the 22nd of May 2015, the buyer purchased and paid for a 5 speed supra gearbox through Paypal Gift. The gearbox was fully tested prior to dispatch by Garage Whifbitz, a tuning company that specialises in Supra's for the last 15 years. Once paid for, the buyer then organised his own pallet and courier to collect the item from Whifbitz south wales branch, where my car was currently located having work done. A week later the buyer has come back to me stating that the gearbox was fitted by his mechanic and no longer works and crucnhes in 2nd gear. This seemed odd to me, as it worked for the last year in my car and was then fully tested by Garage Whifbitz prior to dispatch. Due to the box becoming damaged since removal from my car and not knowing how it was treated during transporation and fitting. Also due to this being an agreed sale by both parties, it therefore does n0t come under unothorized access to the buyers paypal account, as the buyer freely sent the funds via paypal gift to the seller with the mind set to buy. I would like to dispute this transaction. If you require any further info, please contact me soonest. Regards Ashley ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the meantime should i try to prevent the charge back by unlinking my bank account? As he still has the gearbox!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_24 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 A said, I am not trying to drag anyone into crossfire, just simply trying to lay out the facts and see what can be done and whether I am in the right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsia Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Is his mechanic available for comment at all? I'm assuming it's not one of the guys on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonR24 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 As he gifted the money then it's his problem. If he can't prove you accessed it unauthorised then that is a legitimate gift and there's no protection for them. The dangers of gifting money I guess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_24 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Should i unlink the account from my bank account in the meantime? or leave it as is for now? As i dont want the money going anywhere, especially if he has my gearbox still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsia Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Should i unlink the account from my bank account in the meantime? or leave it as is for now? As i dont want the money going anywhere, especially if he has my gearbox still. It depends if you want to risk Paypal no longer allowing you to use their service in the future - unlikely, but they can be quite spiteful. I was 17 when I opened my first account, as soon as they found out (by the time I was 22) they banned the account and I couldn't add a new bank account until my new card arrived. Very odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Sold as seen, you provided no guarantees. Tell them to bog off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The Facebook group being used for sales of items between 2 forum members is an awkward one, especially when the item is also advertised for sale on here as well. The threat of claiming that you're a fraud being put on here wouldn't have much strength, if what you have said above is true. A regular 'dispute' procedure would need to be followed. Following these issues up on here is also difficult when it isn't the medium being used to conduct the sale, as far as traceability goes. I hope that you can have this rectified promptly though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra joe Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 What gearbox did the buyers car have beforehand ? Has he swapped a working one for a broken one ? I'd be very suprised if his dispute sticks as he has gifted you the money so has no protection, PayPal will be able to see this and that you have not hacked him and taken money lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkerstrider Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Sounds like he's damaged it himself and is trying to pull a fast one! Tell him to do one! I'd unlink account too as you only need it on there to accept payments! Would like to know which member it is so I can avoid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Done make any changes to your paypal account and just let them follow process. As others have said he gifted you the money so there is little Paypal can do except tell him if he was purchasing goods it should have been a transaction where he payed the fees and then he would be covered by the buyer guarantee - which with a gift he is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Reeks of a scam to me, has broken box, fits your new box, try to pull fast one to get his money back. Do you know the guy or the garage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Firstly, the seller pays the fees on paypal. So they might not take kindly to you accepting payment as a gift when you sold something. So be careful of that. Secondly, it was done on the facebook group. Why haven't you put up a post on the group? Thirdly, a gift doesn't protect anyone, not even you, he can request a chargeback. All states in the paypal rules, and a box when sending money as a gift. Hence why in the group rules it states not to send money as a gift. Now I would advice for you to create a post on the facebook page. Linking him, and the admin into the conversation. Also save all your communication with him, from the very first message to the last. You want to create a good profile of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Assuming your account is accurate with no important stuff left out (I've got no reason to think it's not, I just know what teh interwebz can be like sometimes), I would say it was sold as seen, no comeback. If he wants a guarantee, he should purchase from a trader and pay 50% more. Even then, retailer guarantees on used cars and car parts can be as much use as a waterproof teabag. I can't see how there can be any comeback if the money was sent to you as a gift. On what grounds can someone claim back a gift? I suspect the Paypal T&Cs just cover themselves. For them to actually do the clawback, there would have to be some compelling logical argument for doing so, and I would bet that a "he said, she said" argument on the internet (as seen from their eyes), the type of which thousands take place every day, wouldn't be sufficient. They won't want to play the policeman in such a dispute where money was gifted, so they'll most likely do nothing. As for threatening to out you as a scammer on the forum, I would tell him to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie_k83 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Firstly, the seller pays the fees on paypal. So they might not take kindly to you accepting payment as a gift when you sold something. So be careful of that. Secondly, it was done on the facebook group. Why haven't you put up a post on the group? Thirdly, a gift doesn't protect anyone, not even you, he can request a chargeback. All states in the paypal rules, and a box when sending money as a gift. Hence why in the group rules it states not to send money as a gift. Now I would advice for you to create a post on the facebook page. Linking him, and the admin into the conversation. Also save all your communication with him, from the very first message to the last. You want to create a good profile of yourself. This, If he took the issue up with his bank, they can snatch the money back, PayPal arent the be all and end all i'm afraid... Do the boxes have any ID on them? If you have the serial number somewhere for it, I would ask for evidence that it is 100% your box that is at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT RR Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 This, If he took the issue up with his bank, they can snatch the money back, PayPal arent the be all and end all i'm afraid... Do the boxes have any ID on them? If you have the serial number somewhere for it, I would ask for evidence that it is 100% your box that is at fault. I don't think banks can take the money back via paypal, even under section 75 of the credit where for example people use credit cards via paypal and expect still to get the same level of protection they do if they were using there credit card in a shop they actually do not, although PayPal appears as the merchant on your statement, it can't be seen as the supplier in a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement under Section 75 because it merely acts as the payment intermediary by transferring the money from the buyer's account to the seller's account. Therefore it breaks that chain to be considered under Section 75. With it being a gift, as I experienced recently when I got messed about in a recent purchase and tried to get a refund, because it was a gift, paypal advise they could do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_24 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 I don't think banks can take the money back via paypal, even under section 75 of the credit where for example people use credit cards via paypal and expect still to get the same level of protection they do if they were using there credit card in a shop they actually do not, although PayPal appears as the merchant on your statement, it can't be seen as the supplier in a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement under Section 75 because it merely acts as the payment intermediary by transferring the money from the buyer's account to the seller's account. Therefore it breaks that chain to be considered under Section 75. With it being a gift, as I experienced recently when I got messed about in a recent purchase and tried to get a refund, because it was a gift, paypal advise they could do nothing. So just so I'm on the same page. I asked him as the buyer to pay for the items using PayPal. He then transferred as a gift for said items, his decision not mine. He is responsible for the method of payment. PayPal cant really hold me responsible if he paid with that method. Plus he agreed to the terms of the sale in the first place. I held up my end and had the box checked over by Whifbitz. They confirmed this over the phone to him and his garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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