Dragonball Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 http://unfccc.int/resource/docs/convkp/kpeng.html And then work out what New Orleans has cost v Political pressure from USA industry No cheap way out of this one - we all gonna pay in the long run.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martynb Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Because that would obviously have made a huge difference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted September 6, 2005 Author Share Posted September 6, 2005 Maybe to our grandchildren it might... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Yes, yes and yes. How many more cities need to be flattened before ALL developed countries take notice of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martynb Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Maybe to our grandchildren it might... Which is a completely different argument to making political capital out of a human tragedy. Hey, why not have a pop at China ? They will out-pollute the US by a huge margin very shortly. At the moment they are building 127 airports but it isn't nearly as fashionable to have a go at them is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted September 6, 2005 Author Share Posted September 6, 2005 Oh good grief - go pratice sophistry somewhere else George Bush is madder then a box of ferrets - and wont sign up to a worldwide treaty due to his political masters within USA industry - the tragedy in New Orleans is, I believe, as a direct result to global warming (as are most of the other world record weather extremes being experienced throughout the globe) and these events are only set to get worse unless we start controlling warming worldwide At what stage (maybe in 5/10 or 50 years) does someone within the USA with foresight stop making decisions based on short term gains - leading to long term ruin As the largest and most sucessful country they should be setting an example - rather than spouting dogma when it suits their aims Fecking Chinese can stop polluting us too....better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Which is a completely different argument to making political capital out of a human tragedy. Hey, why not have a pop at China ? They will out-pollute the US by a huge margin very shortly. At the moment they are building 127 airports but it isn't nearly as fashionable to have a go at them is it? I'm with Paul on this one. I think in this instance there's every reason to make political capital out of it. There's a causal link between the political situation and the human tragedy. OK, maybe N.O. would have been destroyed even without climate change, but pretty much every climate scientist agrees that this sort of thing happens more often due to human mediated change. And that's a political decision. I think we should have a pop at the US and not China, too. Apart from being in itself a huge contributor to climate change, the US has got more political clout than any other country. Its economic, trade, political and military decisions shape the world. If they had the political will, they could put pressure on virtually all countries in the world to think about the issue more seriously. China is a huge but developing economy. The west, for the moment, still holds all the cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Should we even be discussing climate change et al when we are the dedicated consumers of products that have contributed towards this and will probably remain consumers as long as we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Should we even be discussing climate change et al when we are the dedicated consumers of products that have contributed towards this and will probably remain consumers as long as we can. Hands up the de-cat brigade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 the tragedy in New Orleans is, I believe, as a direct result to global warming (as are most of the other world record weather extremes being experienced throughout the globe) and these events are only set to get worse unless we start controlling warming worldwide Sorry mate disagree , it was whoever came up with the mad idea of building a city a good few metres that has left place like that!! no where for the water to run too so it sits there and has to be pumped. Its hurricane season over that area i think they've had them every yr for ages. thats why they had the defences round city up to a cat 3 hurricane unfortunatly i think this was cat 4 / 5. At the end of the day the earth is always gonna change. We've had ice age etc... places use to be hotter some colder. I think of it as evolution. Anyway we will protect the planet just to be hit by big comment and everyone die anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Should we even be discussing climate change et al when we are the dedicated consumers of products that have contributed towards this and will probably remain consumers as long as we can. Heh-heh. Spot on. I try to kid myself that the solar heating in my house balances out the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 At the end of the day the earth is always gonna change. We've had ice age etc... places use to be hotter some colder. I think of it as evolution. Anyway we will protect the planet just to be hit by big comment and everyone die anyway No, no, no. Arrgh! Mate, even the US scientific community now accept that this is a man-made change. Just because there have been changes in the past doesnt mean we should sit idly by without at least trying to do something. What sort of big comment is going to hit the Earth? Do you mean like "YOU'RE ALL UNDERWATER" Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 What sort of big comment is going to hit the Earth? Do you mean like "YOU'RE ALL UNDERWATER" Cliff PMSL comet i meant. At end of day if all the waters rise we can live underwater like the little mermaid Im sure if they talk about having cities on moons and other planets, they can come up with underwater cities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doughie Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 the ONLY good thing about the N.O. disaster is that a few more people in the States may realise what a clueless, lying, war-mongering, international criminal George W. Bush is. All of Europe know it already, and half of the USA, it's just the other half to go. This is a man they RE-ELECTED. Idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chiefvinso Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I agree with whitesupraboy on the cycle of events that the planet is going through - I think! I have read that it is due to humans that things are like this and also that its part of a cycle - all from different scientists, so who do you believe? I dont know. We wont be around to see what actually happens. It doesnt matter who is in power they are out for themselves, The US had noone else to compete with bush and even if they did I doubt things would have changed much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I seem to remember the US were signed up for Kyoto before Bush came into power and then he pulled out....? The mans a cretin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 i think he's the antichrist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jspec Germany Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 the ONLY good thing about the N.O. disaster is that a few more people in the States may realise what a clueless, lying, war-mongering, international criminal George W. Bush is. All of Europe know it already, and half of the USA, it's just the other half to go. This is a man they RE-ELECTED. Idiots. Oh the alternative was so much better. Would you have voted for "I can't make a decision to save my life John Kerry"? Are you off your rocker? Put down the crack pipe and step away from the electrical devices. As George Carlin puts it "earth could shake us off it's back like a bunch of fleas *extending middle finger*" While polution does contribute to climate change this planet has been through extreme climates and ice-ages before and it's still here. China will surpass the U.S. and is larger. Sorry to correct you. If you're driving a Supra and probably are decatted, you have no place even speaking of global warming. Go buy a plug-in electric car (which probably utilized PCBs during production) and get some Birkenstock sandles then wait for the mail to deliver your Greenpeace membership card. I suppose the Tony Blair bashing is next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I agree with whitesupraboy on the cycle of events that the planet is going through - I think! I have read that it is due to humans that things are like this and also that its part of a cycle - all from different scientists, so who do you believe? I dont know. We wont be around to see what actually happens. I understand the 'who do you believe' problem. The scientific community is just that - a community - and as such you never get 100.00% agreement on any issue, let alone on one as hugely complex as climate change. The media tend to report every maverick viewpoint as if it was a new breakthrough, which also doesn't help. The acceptance of human-induced climate change has been hampered by the opinions of US scientists funded by the energy lobby. Their dismissal of the climate change is about as credible as researchers funded by tobacco companies finding cigarettes don't cause cancer. There was also the '10,000 signatories' scandal, in which energy companies produced a list of 10,000 scientists who didn't think climate change was real. The list turned out to have such notable scientists as 'Donald Duck' and 'Posh Spice' on it. Having said all that, there's now a remarkable consensus that humans have affected the climate. I find the fatalism of the view "well, what's it matter, we'll all be dead in one hundred years" depressing in the extreme. The fact that some of our ancestors did think beyond their own lifespans means that we have technical marvels and a standard of comfort they could scarcely have dreamed about. Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 China will surpass the U.S. and is larger. Sorry to correct you. If you're driving a Supra and probably are decatted, you have no place even speaking of global warming. Go buy a plug-in electric car (which probably utilized PCBs during production) and get some Birkenstock sandles then wait for the mail to deliver your Greenpeace membership card. We already did the China/US thing. But again, the relative size of the economy is less imortant than global influence. If the US was serious about emissions control, it has such enormous sway over trade and policy in other countries that it could make more difference than any other country. Of course there's a hypocrisy in sounding off on global warming whilst driving a decatted Supra - as noted earlier in the thread. But equally obviously, global warming is...global. I could run 1000 decatted supras and it wouldn't make a significant difference either way. The only way to tackle it is by making policies that affect the energy consumption of millions of people. I note the usual set of pejoratives applied to anyone with concerns about the environment, but I think you missed out 'tree hugger' on this occasion. I've watched with interest how, over the years, the general viewpoint has gone from "it's probably a good idea to look after the environment" to "looking after the environment is for laughable people who are a bit weird". How did that happen? How did we reach a situation where someone who tries to preserve the real basic things, maybe by encouraging us to make a few sacrifices, becomes someone to rip the piss out of? I'll never figure that one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 Oh the alternative was so much better. Would you have voted for "I can't make a decision to save my life John Kerry"? Are you off your rocker? Put down the crack pipe and step away from the electrical devices. As George Carlin puts it "earth could shake us off it's back like a bunch of fleas *extending middle finger*" While polution does contribute to climate change this planet has been through extreme climates and ice-ages before and it's still here. China will surpass the U.S. and is larger. Sorry to correct you. If you're driving a Supra and probably are decatted, you have no place even speaking of global warming. Go buy a plug-in electric car (which probably utilized PCBs during production) and get some Birkenstock sandles then wait for the mail to deliver your Greenpeace membership card. I suppose the Tony Blair bashing is next? USA Elections - 1. Both alternatives were shit - however the looney won 2. Hardly suprising where he who has most money wins and 3. Who can best appeal to the overwhelming xenophobia of the people However you cant hide behind... 1. Pointing the finger at someone else and saying 'well he's worse than us...' 2. Ooo...it could all be caused by another ice age shit...yeah right...! 3. Anyone who is concerned about the environment are loonies! Maybe we should hide all our CO2 underground like they recommend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jspec Germany Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Ok, so I take back everything I said and we're all friends again. I'm just sick of the Bush bashing. The man is blamed for everything being wrong and given zero credit for what is done right. I think there's a place for Green-minded people. The sandle crack is a load of sh*t I used to give my extremely liberal roommate/best friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.