Alarm wiring help

[chrispot]

hi pete, just a quick post have a look at this http://www.explainthatstuff.com/howrelayswork.html this will give you an understanding of how they work.

i will draw a circuit that you could use and post to you tomorrow.

 

regards chris

[pete.osborne69]

Thanks Chris

I have just finished hard wiring everything in and putting the dash back together

 

All I have left is to wire up the bonnet pin and the boot wire.

 

As for the bonnet pin it looks like the white cable I have left attaches to the bottom of the pin via a male pin connector and the 2 nuts grip was her and washers hold it to the car

 

As for the boot wire on the diagram is says -500 amp blue -- trunk

 

Other than that every things good to go

 

Im off to read the link you sent me, to see if I can understand how relays work

 

You also mentioned that the positive trigger could be used in some other ways how do you mean

 

And I cannot thank you enough for all of the help

 

Thanks again

Pete

[chrispot]

hi pete,

 

you are correct about bonnet pin and white cable. do you still photo of were mine is fitted?

 

the green and white wires are neg trigger for alarm which means that have to be earthed (negative) to trigger the alarm.

the orange wire needs a positive (12v) to trigger alarm, so if you connect this to a device that gives a positive it will trigger the alarm, it could be connected to the side lights, brake lights etc, so it would sound alarm if these were used when the alarm is on.

 

the blue trunk wire is for a solenoid to open the boot. if you wish to use this then you have got to get a solenoid and a relay and fuse holder. the output from the alarm is only 0.5 amp and the solenoid is about 5 to 10 amps. so a relay is required or it damage alarm. and would also need to know if the output is positive or negative, looks to me the diagram shows a neg output. if you do decide to fit i will advise on wiring up.

 

ebay sell these soleniods get this type if you want remote boot.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REMOTE-BOOT-TRUNK-RELEASE-KIT-NEW-FITS-MOST-VEHICLES-TR02-E-/250687604734?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a5e2547fe

 

this type is not powerful enough! don't get!!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-x-CAR-DOOR-LOCK-MOTOR-CENTRAL-LOCKING-SYSTEM-KIT-ALARM-2-WIRE-/261888618890?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cf9c7318a

 

and lastly do you still need me to send diagram on relay for immobilization?

 

i got to finish a few jobs around the house now,(and to stop her eyes burning into the back of my head) i will post up later if needed.

 

regards chris.

[pete.osborne69]

I think I will leave the boot for now and if you wouldn't mind sending me a PIC of your bonnet pin that would be great

 

As for the relay I think I get the basics going from the diagram and the link you sent me

 

If I understand it correctly I would wire the ignition on to 86

 

The yellow wire from the alarm up to 85

 

And a wire that goes from 30 to 86 and 87a

Would look something like this

 

 

Yellow to the alarm and orange to the ignition barrel

 

So when the alarm is armed power comes from the yellow wire into the relay and powers the coil which In turn joins pins 87a and 30 together creating a circuit which prevents the car from starting?

 

This is how I think I understand it -- I get the principal but unsure if I understand the the diagram with the alarm

 

Thanks again

Pete

[pete.osborne69]

In regards to my last post i think i now understand how to wire the relay in, correct me if im wrong

 

yelow wire to the alarm box

wire from the ignition on switch connects to 87A (middle red wire) and the orange wire

 

and the red wire coming from 30 connects to the coil pack

 

so all i need to do is disconnect the original ignition "on" wire (Black with orange tracer) from the connector block and wire it to the red cable coming from pin 30 on the relay

 

join pin 86 and 87A up to the ignition "on" in the connector block at the bottom of the steering column where the black with orange tracer use to fit

 

and the yellow wire from the alarm to pin 85 on the relay

 

if that makes any sense (having a blonde moment in the above post)

 

thanks again

Pete

Edited May 19, 2015 by pete.osborne69 (see edit history)

[chrispot]

In regards to my last post i think i now understand how to wire the relay in, correct me if im wrong

 

yelow wire to the alarm box

wire from the ignition on switch connects to 87A (middle red wire) and the orange wire

 

and the red wire coming from 30 connects to the coil pack

 

so all i need to do is disconnect the original ignition "on" wire (Black with orange tracer) from the connector block and wire it to the red cable coming from pin 30 on the relay

 

join pin 86 and 87A up to the ignition "on" in the connector block at the bottom of the steering column where the black with orange tracer use to fit

 

and the yellow wire from the alarm to pin 85 on the relay

 

if that makes any sense (having a blonde moment in the above post)

 

thanks again

Pete

 

sounds correct to me. and do you understand what the relay does in this case.

 

in the relay there are two separate items so to speak, one is the coil pins 85 and 86 and the other item is the contacts in this case pins 30 and 87 and 87A.

when power is applied to pins 85 and 86 it make an electromagnet which pulls on a metal bar and moves the contacts.

when no power is applied to the coil (85,86) there is continuity between pins 87a and 30.

and when power is applied to the coil there is continuity between pins 87 and 30.

 

in you case with the alarm diagram, when the ignition switch is on and alarm off the power goes pin 87a then onto pin 30 then onto the coil/fuel pump/ignition etc

but if the the alarm on and someone turns on the ignition, the power also goes to pin 86 and the alarm earths out pin 85 which turns on the relay which break the contacts 87a and 30 so no power gets through.

 

if you don't understand that i will draw it down for you with colours etc, as they say a picture saves a lot of typing ( modern version)

just going to do some work on my car and will take photos for you.

 

regards chris

[pete.osborne69]

Yes I think I Understand it, but with the relay working like that what's the point of having a wire connected to the accessory terminal wouldn't it make more sense for it to be connected to that and not the ignition on?

 

This is a bit unrelated but related at the same time in regards to relays

 

 

If I was to have a keyless push start button with the ignition barrel removed (no steering lock)

 

 

Using a different relay

I would assume I would have To wire 1 of the live wires to pin 86 and 87A

Earth out pin 85

And connect pin 30 to a switch which then connected to accessory ?

 

Fitting a keyless push start button is my next job

[pete.osborne69]

Or would it be just a lot simpler to connect a live cable to a switch at one end and then to the black and orange switch at the other which then goes up to the start button and when push makes contact with the starter wire?

[pete.osborne69]

The switch being a kill switch

 

Or would you need 2 switches 1 for Acc

And the other for on

And a third (hidden) (security measures)

Edited May 19, 2015 by pete.osborne69 (see edit history)

[chrispot]

Yes I think I Understand it, but with the relay working like that what's the point of having a wire connected to the accessory terminal wouldn't it make more sense for it to be connected to that and not the ignition on?

 

the relay is not connected to the accessory terminal. the alarm is connected to the accessory terminal so it can't be armed when the key is in the accessory position. ( this is an assumption as i don't know alarm)

 

 

 

This is a bit unrelated but related at the same time in regards to relays

 

 

If I was to have a keyless push start button with the ignition barrel removed (no steering lock)

 

 

Using a different relay

I would assume I would have To wire 1 of the live wires to pin 86 and 87A

Earth out pin 85

And connect pin 30 to a switch which then connected to accessory It could be done like that but what would be the point in using a relay when your using a switch

 

Fitting a keyless push start button is my next job

before doing anything like that i would get to grips fully on using relays.

[pete.osborne69]

OK sounds sensible Ill do what research I can before thinking about going any further and see if I can grasp the full fundamentals

 

Did you drill a hole into your car frame to fit the bonnet play n

 

And thanks again for all of your help and patience its appreciated

 

Pete

[chrispot]

The switch being a kill switch

 

Or would you need 2 switches 1 for Acc

And the other for on

And a third (hidden) (security measures)

 

 

i think now you have got your alarm working your getting carried away with you new found knowledge, but i think you have still a bit to learn, i admire what you are doing and having a go, but there is more to it than you think, i will give you something to think about, what would you do with the shift lock system how would this be wired?

there are two main lives that come on when the key is turned and one switches off when in the start position? do you know why this is ? not putting you down but these are a couple of points that to show you it's not as simple as it first seems. yes it's possible to do but only when have learnt more in my opinion

 

you could use a RFID system for the ignition switch or to unlock the car, similar to what a lot of cars have in the ignition key to act a immobilizer and some cars do use RFID to unlock the car. a bit research for you?

 

if you want to learn more go to this site it has lot of info on relays etc. http://www.the12volt.com/ and for some more stuff to learn http://www.bcae1.com/ look at the side tabs on this site aswell

 

not being funny but i won't be telling you how to wire up such a system, i will give you ideas on what to use etc but it takes up a lot of my time and i don't want to write a book on it, lol

 

regards chris.

 

ps i will draw diagram do for tomorrow for you, and it should be clearer on how it all works. as i have been very busy today.

Edited May 19, 2015 by chrispot
added a Post script (see edit history)

[pete.osborne69]

Thanks Chris, I completely agree with you, when thinking about it, I do seem to be going way out into the unknown and I would benefit from doing quite a bit of research not only into relays but understanding wiring diagrams better than what I currently do and not to mention the fundamentals of DC current and a positive or negative circuit

 

Tbh I knew there were 2 lives going to the ignition but I do not know why

 

I am aware that this kind of procedure has issues in regards to steering lock and now a shift lock and currently have no idea how to combat this yet

 

I think once I have my car back together (hopefully by this weekend) I will start my research

 

Also i will look into how the wiring works in the supra before even considering putting a keyless entry in the car

 

And I will start by drawing a wiring diagram of how it should be before anything gets put in motion and then have that checked by someone and have them confirm that I have the skills to do the job before I begin

 

Thanks again for the help and support in all of this hopefully I will have an understanding on how circuits, relays, diagrams and general car electronic systems work the next time I decide to go down a road that requires it

 

Thanks

Pete

[chrispot]

hi pete have drawn a simple diagram to show what happens with the relay etc. I have let omitted the rest of wires for clarity.

 

when the relay does not have power to terminals 85 & 86 the contacts 87A & 30 are made, which is it's normal state.

so when the ignition switch is turned on power goes to 87a then on to 30 and out to ignition coil, fuel pump etc and the engine starts etc.

 

if someone triggered the alarm the switch inside the alarm unit would provide a earth for the relay terminal 85, so if they then turned on the ignition it would provide power to the other side of the relay terminal 86 and the relay would operate. when the relay is operating it would break contacts 87a and 30 so stopping power getting to the coil etc.

 

it's done this way so that if someone triggers the alarm and runs away the relay won't switch on and drain the battery because the ignition has not been put on to provide a live for the relay to work.

 

the switch inside the alarm unit could be a transistor,mosfet or a integrated circuit. but i have shown a simple switch to illustrate workings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you could add a siren inside the car so when the alarm has been triggered and the ignition is switched on power would then go to siren instead of coil/fuel pump etc. it would more alarming for the thief (pun intended) when a siren is going off inside the car and very loud.

 

as you can see terminals 30 & 87A are still being used, so it would still work as above. the connections are reversed and to allow power from the ignition switch to go through terminal 30 then on to terminal 87 powering siren?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and a picture where mine is fitted.

regards chris.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Beware of adding so much *&$~ that the wiring becomes a spider's web of unreliability, and you potentially doing more harm than good. I see OE wiring looms that really need binning from the add ons bodged on over the years. Doing a proper alarm install takes a lot of time and patience and the use of proper (expensive) connectors and (very) expensive crimp tools. You saying this may be a temporary install to be improved later is worrying.... That is how the stock loom becomes a real mess.

[chrispot]

hi pete one last thing to feed your modding lust.

 

I made a simple circuit for my car being like yours an auto as i don't normally use the handbrake when parked or stopped at lights etc.

 

some cars are fitted with a interior light delay unit. ok when first getting in the car but if the engine is running and you have to pick up a passenger when they open the door the light comes on and goes off as soon as they have shut the door (could be a cold night) and find it hard to find seat belt fixings etc.

 

what i have done is connect my handbrake to the interior light so when handbrake is on and ignition acc is on the interior light is on. as soon as i release the handbrake the interior light goes off.

 

so if you have driven to pick someone up, you stop put hand brake on and the interior light comes on and stays on so they can see where to put bag/seat belt etc. as soon as they are ready you release handbrake lights out and you drive off.

 

or you could just the switch on the interior light, but i am a lazy bastard and the handbrake is nearer. LOL

 

the diode used is a simple 1n4001 from maplins or ebay only cost pence.

 

i don't think i need to explain how it works.

the diode is there to stop the relay working when the acc is on and handbrake is off. i won't go into why. as i want to do my car now.

 

if your interested i can give you other ideas circuits that i have made, some simple some not. and i will help you because you appreciate what i having been doing for you, and it means a lot me when someone says Thank you.

 

regards chris.

 

ps the circuit

[chrispot]

Beware of adding so much *&$~ that the wiring becomes a spider's web of unreliability, and you potentially doing more harm than good. I see OE wiring looms that really need binning from the add ons bodged on over the years. Doing a proper alarm install takes a lot of time and patience and the use of proper (expensive) connectors and (very) expensive crimp tools. You saying this may be a temporary install to be improved later is worrying.... That is how the stock loom becomes a real mess.

 

I agree with your sentiments.

but in my opinion it all comes down to the individual on how they have done their mods, if neat soldered and heat shrinked and cable tied i see no reason not to mod the car.

on the other hand i have seen mods done where they are lucky the car has not caught fire and looks a absolute mess under the dash or have had bad connection issues though using things like scotchlocks.

 

and some people are not blessed with a lot of money to buy the tools or get someone experienced to do the work, but want to mod their car. so have to make the best job they can.

 

at the end of the day it's their car their potential problem.

 

regards chris.

[pete.osborne69]

the switch inside the alarm unit could be a transistor,mosfet or a integrated circuit. but i have shown a simple switch to illustrate workings.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]201479[/ATTACH]

you could add a siren inside the car so when the alarm has been triggered and the ignition is switched on power would then go to siren instead of coil/fuel pump etc. it would more alarming for the thief (pun intended) when a siren is going off inside the car and very loud.

 

as you can see terminals 30 & 87A are still being used, so it would still work as above. the connections are reversed and to allow power from the ignition switch to go through terminal 30 then on to terminal 87 powering siren?

 

So if I understand the whole diagram correctly it works in 2 ways

 

1) Alarm Off and key in ignition

 

The switch in the alarm remains open

 

After the key is turned the circuit is made to the resistor and power goes through finishing the circuit and allowing the car to start

 

2) Alarm On and key in ignition

 

The switch in the alarm is now closed

 

After the key is turned this create a circuit to the relay and powers the coil pulling the switch in the opposite way which triggers the siren and prevents the car from starting

 

Thank you for the diagrams and explanations on how they would work

 

Also I never thought about putting the bonnet pin there

 

I have just finished fitting the bonnet struts and was going to place the pin where the original bonnet holder was

 

Then I changed my mind and decided to drill a hole through the rubber bump stop putting the pin in there (almost hidden) and putting a metal plate under the bump stop to allow connection to the car (otherwise it doesn't make a connection)

 

However this did not work so I just put the wire to the body of the car locked it and took it off and nothing.

 

Checked what color wire was connected (white)

Double checked the connection and nothing

 

Dunno why this is happening?

 

I finally fired up the car today (first time in 2 week)

And blew the fuse to the alarm (15 amp)

Fitted a new fuse set up the alarm features that I wanted on, tested them all worked fine as they should

 

Switch off the engine, got out went to lock the car and nothing, checked the fuse and yet again it had blown

 

So replaced the fuse again checked and double checked all of the wiring (soldiered together) then rewrapped them in insulation tape (for now) will be heat shrunk when I can confirm that everything is working as it should

 

Haven't done anything since, just connected battery unlocked car, fired her up and then locked car so everything seems fine now

 

Could it just be a faulty fuse that came with the alarm and the ones I replaced it with are about 20 years old believe it or not

 

Many thanks again I will have a look at your next post and see if I can understand how it all works from the diagram

 

Thanks

Pete

[Guest TRD_TT]

WOW - I'm so jealous, well done on the on the job Pete, top credit for giving it a go, I have an old Toad sitting right here with a battery pack I have been playing with and trying to learn. You have done a great job so far, installing yourself and knowing where all the wiring is and what you have plumbed in is priceless, plus you can do it at your own pace and be extra careful as its your own car, something goes wrong then you will know your way round as well. Totally gutted to have to hand this job out to someone else to do but it may come to that as I fear I will blow the door ecu or something else on my JZS161 and parts are not as readily available being an import, then again I may just take a chance lol

 

Chris - your a legend for providing so much help.

 

un-hijacked I will let you boys carry on...Good luck.

Edited May 21, 2015 by TRD_TT (see edit history)

[pete.osborne69]

WOW - I'm so jealous, well done on the on the job Pete, top credit for giving it a go, I have an old Toad sitting right here with a battery pack I have been playing with and trying to learn. You have done a great job so far, installing yourself and knowing where all the wiring is and what you have plumbed in is priceless, plus you can do it at your own pace and be extra careful as its your own car, something goes wrong then you will know your way round as well. Totally gutted to have to hand this job out to someone else to do but it may come to that as I fear I will blow the door ecu or something else on my JZS161 and parts are not as readily available being an import, then again I may just take a chance lol

 

Chris - your a legend for providing so much help.

 

un-hijacked I will let you boys carry on...Good luck.

 

Thanks mate, and tbh when I started the project originally I had no idea where all the wiring was, it was mainly a process due to elimination.

 

Most of the wiring was guess work at first using a multimeter I was able to narrow the wires down to 4 in the drivers side kick panel (loom coming out of the door) Chris confirmed that I only needed 2 from that plug (door lock control module)

 

From a couple of threads on 2 different forums I found out that the door motor was behind the dash next to the glove box on the passengers side ( Chris later told me that this is where they were and which wires the were)

 

And to be fair there was a lot more to it as you can see from the thread and Chris helped a lot and also I learned a lot from Chris.

 

It is something that that's worth learning in the end, due to all of the possibilities you have when a relay is involved, don't get me wrong I know very little about them, and it takes me a while to understand how the flow of current works just from a diagram, but that's defiantly needed it makes it easier to grasp how the relay actually does its job

 

Personally I would have a go at fitting it yourself if you can, but you will probably need a few days. I tried to do it myself and was getting nowhere quick I think I spent 3 1/2 days working most of the stuff out and still needed help but once you know where everything is fitting it is simple.

 

If you do decide to do it your self I left the alarm system on the gear box stripped the wire insulation back on the wires and slotted the wire in with the pins on the connector blocks (temp)

 

Reconnected the battery and then tested it when I was happy I move on to the next ones and so on, takes time but its the satisfaction at the end of it.

 

If you need help I will be able to help somewhat in how I did mine (still fresh in my head) I remember where all the connections are made and Chris clearly states the wiring colours needed.

 

Once happy with how it all worked and what wire went to what I wrote it down on a piece of paper and used clips to connect the cables so I didn't have to cut into the loom (except the coil cable which I used a male and female connector on in case I needed to reverse it)

 

Let me know what you decide

 

Pete

[pete.osborne69]

hi pete one last thing to feed your modding lust.

 

I made a simple circuit for my car being like yours an auto as i don't normally use the handbrake when parked or stopped at lights etc.

 

some cars are fitted with a interior light delay unit. ok when first getting in the car but if the engine is running and you have to pick up a passenger when they open the door the light comes on and goes off as soon as they have shut the door (could be a cold night) and find it hard to find seat belt fixings etc.

 

what i have done is connect my handbrake to the interior light so when handbrake is on and ignition acc is on the interior light is on. as soon as i release the handbrake the interior light goes off.

 

so if you have driven to pick someone up, you stop put hand brake on and the interior light comes on and stays on so they can see where to put bag/seat belt etc. as soon as they are ready you release handbrake lights out and you drive off.

 

or you could just the switch on the interior light, but i am a lazy bastard and the handbrake is nearer. LOL

 

the diode used is a simple 1n4001 from maplins or ebay only cost pence.

 

i don't think i need to explain how it works.

the diode is there to stop the relay working when the acc is on and handbrake is off. i won't go into why. as i want to do my car now.

 

if your interested i can give you other ideas circuits that i have made, some simple some not. and i will help you because you appreciate what i having been doing for you, and it means a lot me when someone says Thank you.

 

regards chris.

 

ps the circuit

[ATTACH=CONFIG]201481[/ATTACH]

 

So going from the diagram you drew I think it works like so

 

1) no key door open

 

Current travels from "perm live" activating the "interior lamp" as the "door pin switch" is closed, creating a circuit.

 

2) no key door closed

 

Current does not travel anywhere do to it not being earthed

 

3) key in door closed

 

In terror light goes out due to no earth

 

4) key turned to "acc on", handbrake on door closed

 

Current travels from "acc live down to the relay and through to the " handbrake switch" to earth thus creating a circuit

 

Which in turn powers the coil in the relay pushing the pin 87a to join with pin 87 which creates a circuit coming from:

Perm live down to the interior lamp into the relay at pin 30 and leaving and pin 87 which is earthed allowing the interior lamp to come on as the circuit is now complete

 

5) key turned to "ign on", handbrake on and door closed

 

Same as above except the power comes from the ign live and not the acc live

 

and I assume that the resistor is in place to stop the two live currents connecting creating a circuit in the relay

 

Does this sound about right or am I getting something wrong here

 

Thanks again

Pete