Voting for policies

[Chris Wilson]

We must also take a firm stance on things such as having one of our very few modern naval vessels acting as a lifeboat for illegal immigrants in the Med', too.

Ludicrous PC operations like that will hopefully stop, and our military resources used militarily, not as a floating maternity ward.

[JasonR24]

I think we need HUGE electoral reform. First past the post is outdated and NOT representative. The alternative voting system is a much better option and should have been implemented in 2011. Why it went for a no majority I can only assume was because only 42% turned up and they were probably labour and Tory voters keeping the same old parties in power.

 

I just can't believe 5 million votes between greens and UKIP translates to 2 seats, when SNP got 56 seats on not even 1.5 million votes. I'm sorry but that's NOT democracy.

 

Edit: its official, RIP democracy

[AJI]

I can't believe so many people voted conservative. The party that has doubled the deficit, doubled the debt and has continually shown a lack of equality, we could solve the deficit by simply fixing loop holes and making people pay their fair share in tax.

 

Now everyone is going to be worse off. They are already talking about internet monitoring acts. They will no doubt make it even harder for the working person while the wealthy get a free pass.

 

Totally disillusioned with politics and this country right now.

 

To be fair, the last government was a coalition and not a Tory government.

The problem any government has though is that if there are significant public spending cuts to address the deficit and national debt then it results in riots and strikes. Especially when its a non-Labour government in power.

But then the another way to tackle the committed spending and any lack of spending cuts is to raise taxes, which again is met with anger.

The only other way is to reap gains from a growing economy by implementing certain policies (which may result in more spending or not).

 

I think the UK population realized yesterday that if a Labour government came to power it would surely mean more spending which can not be met with current tax revenue, therefore increasing the deficit and wasting more taxpayer money through having to pay ever increasing interest on the existing national debt.

 

It is true though that the old coalition borrowed a hell of a lot of money, but to balance that the economy has grown nicely.

You only had to look at the markets yesterday with things jumping up and down (mainly down) with the possible prospect of a Labour government.

 

The only thing I am sad about is that UKIP did not gain more seats than they did. The scare tactics of the campaigns with regards to a possible Labour-SNP coalition worked well in favour of the Tories, at the expense of UKIP I would say.

But the positive thing now is that we get to practice a bit more democracy in the form of an EU referendum and the UK economy is safe from a borrowing spree by a Labour government.

[Wez]

I agree that the current system does need addressing, the numbers do not lie, this was done earlier on so doesn't show latest figures

 

[JasonR24]

It's not democracy when 4 million votes gets 1 seat, 1.5 million votes gets 56 seats. That's not proportional representation. Even the greens got over a million! In terms of votes right now we should be looking at 25 seats for the greens, 31 for SNP, 51 for lib dems, 82 seats for UKIP, 199 for labour and 240 for Tory, with 22 for others, I'd rather a coalition between all the rest than conservative because in terms of percentage that would still be more democratic than what we currently have.

 

The economy is definitely not safe. The debt of this country has doubled and the deficit doubled. We are in a bad place right now. a good economy has been twisted by the torys to present a positive for the nation when in actual fact only the few at the top are benefiting everyone else is struggling. I mean we've got a million people going to food banks!! That is not the sign of a prosperous country.

 

The next 5 years are going to be devastating. NHS is under threat with losses in nurses and doctors and the police are down in number too.

 

I really think people haven't researched what the last 5 years have done. It's worse now than it was under labour. Yes the war was questionable but the torys backed the war too so they are just as bad.

 

Voting should be mandatory. If all the people who didn't vote had of done then we would have a totally different result.

[Chris Wilson]

Most of the so called million going to food banks are taking it home to watch in front of their multiple wide screen TV's waiting for the pubs to open though. There's no real poverty in the UK if you are willing to work.

[JasonR24]

Most of the so called million going to food banks are taking it home to watch in front of their multiple wide screen TV's waiting for the pubs to open though. There's no real poverty in the UK if you are willing to work.

 

I am coming across quite ranty, I apologise. This election has stressed me out tbh. The issue i have is that we had a real chance for an alternative this time but people went with a worse choice. The conservatives have put us in more debt and by voting for them has achieved the killing off of many seats that would bring balance like the lib dems old seats.

 

I've spoken to a lot of people that were totally ignorant of what was going on and voted conservative not knowing the facts. Very very worrying

[AJI]

It's not democracy when 4 million votes gets 1 seat, 1.5 million votes gets 56 seats. That's not proportional representation. Even the greens got over a million! In terms of votes right now we should be looking at 25 seats for the greens, 31 for SNP, 51 for lib dems, 82 seats for UKIP, 199 for labour and 240 for Tory, with 22 for others, I'd rather a coalition between all the rest than conservative because in terms of percentage that would still be more democratic than what we currently have.

 

The economy is definitely not safe. The debt of this country has doubled and the deficit doubled. We are in a bad place right now. a good economy has been twisted by the torys to present a positive for the nation when in actual fact only the few at the top are benefiting everyone else is struggling. I mean we've got a million people going to food banks!! That is not the sign of a prosperous country.

 

The next 5 years are going to be devastating. NHS is under threat with losses in nurses and doctors and the police are down in number too.

 

I really think people haven't researched what the last 5 years have done. It's worse now than it was under labour. Yes the war was questionable but the torys backed the war too so they are just as bad.

 

Voting should be mandatory. If all the people who didn't vote had of done then we would have a totally different result.

 

Its a form of democracy but I guess you're right, its not perfect by any means.

But it is a system that usually delivers a single party to office, whereby certain political swing can be a good move for the specific criteria of the times we live in.

In a proportional representation system then usually they will deliver a coalition government every time, in that unless there is HUGE support for a single party, it would be unlikely for them to gain office and carry out their political agenda.

 

There are pros and cons for each system of course, but although I am sad UKIP didn't do better, I am glad we still have a FPTP system.

This is because under coalition governments there is too much compromise as one party often can not implement its full policy to effect. This means indecision, lack of effect, lack of progress etc.

 

The economy is much better state than when Labour left it, that is a given. The economy is growing here in the UK faster than all other EU nations put together. The growing economy is providing large tax receipts for the government which is much better than having to raise taxes for the public.

 

The top few vs the rest:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11233686/How-top-3000-earners-pay-more-tax-than-bottom-9-million.html

 

If you start to 'fight' this then you will remove those top few and leave the rest to have to fork out in higher tax rates to pay for the shortfall.

I guess this comes more down to morals rather that policy, because its the board members that approve the silly high rates of bonus and incomes that some people get. Board members taking on popular opinion from share holders etc.

 

The NHS has secured funding for the next number of years, an increase on spending, an increase over inflation rates. This can't be a threat can it?

 

But to say that its all worse now than it was under labour..... in what way exactly?

I remember watching numerous programs when the recession kicked in about how under labour they spent the money of my parent's generation, my generation, my offspring's generation and also their offspring's generation, all to win votes, at the expense of the UK economy and its security.

If there is anyone to blame for the severity of public service cuts, lack of salary increases etc. then you only need to look back a few years to find to reasons. I'm glad the population voted to keep the reds out.

 

Apologies for targeting your posts Jason, but I seem to be getting more interested in politics as I get older. And the more I study it the more I get critical of it. Sometimes actually I wish I didn't know a thing about it, then I wouldn't get so riled at things I see on the media.

[marc_p]

I The conservatives have put us in more debt and by voting for them has achieved the killing off of many seats that would bring balance like the lib dems old seats.

 

That has made me smile, you do realise that Labour completely and utterly f**ked us, they over spent on everything, then once all the money had gone, they decided to clear out our gold reserves, it's taken 5 years of hard work but the country is finally getting back on track, I for one am happy that we managed to get conservatives in again to finish the job of recovery(at which point, Labour will probably come back and screw us all over again) and not in a coalition either.

[j_jza80]

The debt has increased 50%, the deficit has halved. But assuming you wanted Labour to win, you can't really complain as they are part of the problem.

 

Labour wanted to borrow more to 'invest', a strategy the IMF agreed with. Now George Osbournes plan has been acknowledged by the IMF as the correct thing to do, and as a result we have the fastest growing economy in the Western world. Things are still not great, property is still too expensive (although property prices increased by MANY times this amount under Labour), and we're still spending too heavily.

 

I'm not a particular fan of the Tories, but Labour have been utterly wrong on the economy ever since Bliar, and yesterday they got flogged for it.

[j_jza80]

That has made me smile, you do realise that Labour completely and utterly f**ked us, they over spent on everything, then once all the money had gone, they decided to clear out our gold reserves, it's taken 5 years of hard work but the country is finally getting back on track, I for one am happy that we managed to get conservatives in again to finish the job of recovery(at which point, Labour will probably come back and screw us all over again) and not in a coalition either.

 

Labour borrowed record amounts during the countrys most prosperous time in living memory. What on earth did they think would happen when it went bad? Browns 'we've beaten the bust' showing utter contempt for basic Keynesian economics.

[JasonR24]

Not true:

 

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/11/the-tories-have-piled-on-more-debt-than-labour/

[JasonR24]

Its a form of democracy but I guess you're right, its not perfect by any means.

But it is a system that usually delivers a single party to office, whereby certain political swing can be a good move for the specific criteria of the times we live in.

In a proportional representation system then usually they will deliver a coalition government every time, in that unless there is HUGE support for a single party, it would be unlikely for them to gain office and carry out their political agenda.

 

There are pros and cons for each system of course, but although I am sad UKIP didn't do better, I am glad we still have a FPTP system.

This is because under coalition governments there is too much compromise as one party often can not implement its full policy to effect. This means indecision, lack of effect, lack of progress etc.

 

The economy is much better state than when Labour left it, that is a given. The economy is growing here in the UK faster than all other EU nations put together. The growing economy is providing large tax receipts for the government which is much better than having to raise taxes for the public.

 

The top few vs the rest:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11233686/How-top-3000-earners-pay-more-tax-than-bottom-9-million.html

 

If you start to 'fight' this then you will remove those top few and leave the rest to have to fork out in higher tax rates to pay for the shortfall.

I guess this comes more down to morals rather that policy, because its the board members that approve the silly high rates of bonus and incomes that some people get. Board members taking on popular opinion from share holders etc.

 

The NHS has secured funding for the next number of years, an increase on spending, an increase over inflation rates. This can't be a threat can it?

 

But to say that its all worse now than it was under labour..... in what way exactly?

I remember watching numerous programs when the recession kicked in about how under labour they spent the money of my parent's generation, my generation, my offspring's generation and also their offspring's generation, all to win votes, at the expense of the UK economy and its security.

If there is anyone to blame for the severity of public service cuts, lack of salary increases etc. then you only need to look back a few years to find to reasons. I'm glad the population voted to keep the reds out.

 

Apologies for targeting your posts Jason, but I seem to be getting more interested in politics as I get older. And the more I study it the more I get critical of it. Sometimes actually I wish I didn't know a thing about it, then I wouldn't get so riled at things I see on the media.

 

It's fine, you're not targeting me at all. I didn't want this thread to be a debate before they voted because I feel that's a conflict of interest. I studied politics at A level and if it wasn't for my job and the degree in studying then I would definitely try and get into it and represent the TUSC. I feel they are a party I could stand behind.

 

I do like debate. It just really affects me when I see a non representative system in place.

 

I agree with what you all say in a way. I do not condone some of labours actions but I also do not condone the torys actions. Which is why we needed change more than ever. The torys are on the side of business, this is apparent and I know many of you are business owners yourselves, however while it may look like the Tory policies will benefit you, this is just an accident. They only really look to benefit those in large corporations where they can keep tax loop holes open. The mega rich don't want to pay their way, when it is the people who they have to thank for their wealth, yet they give nothing back. Some of you may argue but in money that could be saved. Over £40 to the deficit if I recall, this is substantial.

 

Just because the NHS has secured funding it doesn't mean it isn't immune to privatisation. It also doesn't mean it's immune to contracting out to private sectors. So basically tax payer money going in private hands again!

 

Let's not forget although labour sold our gold which I agree is disgraceful. The torys sold off our assets cheap to their rich friends!

 

I'm not judging the people who have worked hard for their money. Hats fair enough but you have to contribute and you have to realise that some people work just as hard as others but don't have millions, does that mean they don't deserve the millions? No it's doesn't do they should be taxed for it.

 

I don't want labour or conservative in. They have both been proven incapable.

[Chris Wilson]

Not much shuffling in the re-shuffle! May stays as Home Secretary, Osborne remains as Chancellor, Hammond is still Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. Hopefully Gove will also stay as Education Minister. Fallon stays as Defence Secretary, albeit without planes, ships or servicemen....

 

How UKIP will fare without Farage I don't know, he was a strong leader and a character. He was also quite an erudite debater, fiery and colourful!

 

I shall raise a pint to him this evening.

[Scott-tt]

4 parties done worse than the monster raving loony party. Come on the monster raving loonies

[JasonR24]

Tories job on the economy:http://theconversation.com/the-conservative-partys-economic-record-just-went-from-bad-to-worse-40936

 

I can say I voted UKIP based on the fact their polices were quite good apart inheritance tax which i disagree on against them.

[JasonR24]

4 parties done worse than the monster raving loony party. Come on the monster raving loonies

 

What are you talking about? They won didn't they? Lol

[Al Massey]

Jason, don't forget that just because a new government comes in, doesn't mean the old spending, old debts, old legislations and laws get wiped clean and started again.

 

Labour started this hole mess years ago.

They got the ball rolling, they sold all our gold stupidly cheap, they started us with the EU.

All these policies from decades ago has knock on affects and can't be fixed overnight.

Everyone needs to remember that, but everyone blames who ever is currently in power.

Which is stupid.

 

Everything takes time, and I really can't wait till the end of this 5 year term for all the haters to eat their hats.

 

And also it was a coalition, 2 parties that had very different views on most things, so compromise had to take place on various different subjects.

 

But what the coalition did was change things for the better in the long run.

 

Now it's a chance for the Tories to finish what they wanted.

 

And about the food banks, think Chris hit the nail on the head.

 

Those people using the food banks are eating it in front of the expensive tv's, sky, on facebook on a brand new tablet/phone using super fast broadband.

[Hitbox Junkie]

Some things cant and shouldn't have a price in my opinion, such as defense, and anything that will preserve life ( as that is the most important thing ) but all the party's have there pros and cons there isn't a party that had 100% of what I wanted. I also think that the voting system we have isn't representative as said above a party with 3+million votes with only one seat doesn't add up to me but we will see in my opinion all politicians are liars, just seems that is politics the party that can lie the best ( tell the people what they want to hear the most ) wins.

[Scooter]

What I find interesting and confusing in the same breath is the countries position on debt and budget deficit. It seems that an individual with these relative figures would be one racking up multiple credit card debts and every month spending more than they are earning.

 

It seems this is possible as either people are willing to lend to us or we effectively lend ourselves more money (ie create it out of thin air?).

 

If this was my lifestyle then I would be told I'm an idiot, but it seems every country (to a varying degree) is in this situation?

 

I sort of get the country is like a business and some borrowing to 'get things done or built' is sensible and ultimately a way to bring growth, like giving an individual a start up business loan but where is the sensible limit?

 

I'm no economist but I'm no idiot either and I can't understand really what it going on!? America's debt is just running away, ours could be too, Greece gets constant flack for potentially bringing the Euro and being a burden but are we any better?

[j_jza80]

Some things cant and shouldn't have a price in my opinion, such as defense, and anything that will preserve life

 

That's fine, so long as no one wants paying, and nothing needs buying.

[Tony]

I am coming across quite ranty, I apologise. This election has stressed me out tbh. The issue i have is that we had a real chance for an alternative this time but people went with a worse choice. The conservatives have put us in more debt and by voting for them has achieved the killing off of many seats that would bring balance like the lib dems old seats.

 

I've spoken to a lot of people that were totally ignorant of what was going on and voted conservative not knowing the facts. Very very worrying

 

I think a lot of people thought that Lab with the SNP could get in & lets face it that would be worst case scenario

[supra joe]

Don't know why people were fighting for seats, just been to ikea... Only £12 each !

[j_jza80]

What I find interesting and confusing in the same breath is the countries position on debt and budget deficit. It seems that an individual with these relative figures would be one racking up multiple credit card debts and every month spending more than they are earning.

 

It seems this is possible as either people are willing to lend to us or we effectively lend ourselves more money (ie create it out of thin air?).

 

If this was my lifestyle then I would be told I'm an idiot, but it seems every country (to a varying degree) is in this situation?

 

I sort of get the country is like a business and some borrowing to 'get things done or built' is sensible and ultimately a way to bring growth, like giving an individual a start up business loan but where is the sensible limit?

 

I'm no economist but I'm no idiot either and I can't understand really what it going on!? America's debt is just running away, ours could be too, Greece gets constant flack for potentially bringing the Euro and being a burden but are we any better?

 

Ideally what you would want would be to put aside/outwardly invest money when the economy is doing well, so that it can be used to stimulate the economy when it isn't doing well. Labour borrowed heavily while we were doing well, and Brown famously claimed to have beaten the bust. When the global financial crisis hit, we had nothing to fall back on.

 

Just look at Norway. They have accumulated an enormous sovereign wealth fund, to the point where it's actually becoming too large.

[JasonR24]

Jason, don't forget that just because a new government comes in, doesn't mean the old spending, old debts, old legislations and laws get wiped clean and started again.

 

Labour started this hole mess years ago.

They got the ball rolling, they sold all our gold stupidly cheap, they started us with the EU.

All these policies from decades ago has knock on affects and can't be fixed overnight.

Everyone needs to remember that, but everyone blames who ever is currently in power.

Which is stupid.

 

Everything takes time, and I really can't wait till the end of this 5 year term for all the haters to eat their hats.

 

And also it was a coalition, 2 parties that had very different views on most things, so compromise had to take place on various different subjects.

 

But what the coalition did was change things for the better in the long run.

 

Now it's a chance for the Tories to finish what they wanted.

 

And about the food banks, think Chris hit the nail on the head.

 

Those people using the food banks are eating it in front of the expensive tv's, sky, on facebook on a brand new tablet/phone using super fast broadband.

 

I appreciate the reply Al, but unfortunately I have an A level in politics so I am well aware of this absolute flawed system.

 

If you look back it has been an ongoing thing for both parties. Before labour sold the gold in desperation the conservatives sold all of the countries publicly owned assets. So basically we have them to thank for the incredible deficit because there's not enough money coming in to make it a surplus.

 

Also we've been EU for a long time and I'm pretty sure the conservatives were in back then when we became a member. So that's their fault too. I never blame who was in power, they are all as bad as each other. The conservatives and labour are like a dirty stagnant smell that is rotting this country and that's what people don't see. We need new parties to keep things fresh and moving along.

 

At the end of the five years we will have more austerity, more invasive laws (the snoopers charter, which they're already trying to push through!), less funding for public services, the same tax dodging loop holes, less equality.

 

The coalition is a good thing. Fairer representation and we want it harder for laws to get through! In a lot of cases! We need to stop laws like the snoopers charter getting through. Governments need to know the people are in charge and not them.

 

Everyone says the torys "finish what they started"

Finish what? The GDP is the same now as it was when labour left. The debt has gone to 1.6 billion!

 

I honestly don't know what people want from these sorts of people. To literally turn around and shout that your money goes on private contracts and won't be spent on the people?

 

I can kind of understand the food banks thing. That's something I also don't agree with. It's all about fairness and balance... God I sound like Nick Clegg... But the bloke is right. Down the middle of the political spectrum where the rich pay there way and don't dodge tax but the poor get jobs and get to work.

 

Also the UKIP policy of a points system like Australia would be a great thing. To get the best of the best working here, bringing something to offer. Uncontrolled borders is unsustainable and many people I know who are immigrants agree! They know they've worked hard here's and others should too.