sinbad Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Guys, Just picked up my 94 TT UK spec. The car is smoking (smells of oil and is blue/grey) at idle. There is no smoke from the engine at any other time even when the revs are only slightly above idle. When I stop at junctions it smokes again after 3-5 seconds. Does not make much difference if the engine is warm or cold. Help please Sinbad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Still got warranty? Take it back.. youre turbo seals are shot. Smoke on idle as youre describing is a a classic symptom of turbo seal failure. Normally when sitting at traffic lights, no smoke during a run... always after a few seconds of coming to a stop. If you have no warranty...say hello to a big bill for replacements. Both turbos have to be stripped and rebuilt. Dont be too disheartened though, think of it as a good excuse to fit hybrids. Bad luck.. know how you feel..mine went last year after owning the car for only four months. Dont mean to scare you but you might as well know the whole of it.. youre looking at (for the pair) £1100+ for stock units and between £1400-1800 for hybrids depending on what builds/company you go for. Labour will be between £400 and 550 if you get a garage to remove/refit them. There are ways to cut the costs though, by removing and reftitting them yourself etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbad Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 Is it possible to replace the turbo seals or do I have to replace the entire turbos? I like the sound of a DIY job as I could get the help of a friend. Are there any on-line guides with pics etc? Are there any tricky bits with the install or is it a bolt on bolt off affair? I have been reading through the various forums and this could also be associated with stem seals but there is quite a lot of smoke so I'm ruling this out for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 The turbos need to be stripped for the seals to be replaced.. but whilst they do this they recondition the turbos for you so the price is still around £1100... its not a job for the home mechanic as it requires specialist tools. Personally id go for the oppurtunity of fitting hybrids... someone on here can put you in touch with Leon who builds very good hybrids, or try somewhere like http://www.turbotechnics.com . Removal/refitting yourself isnt difficult but is a big job (several hours to remove them). As long as youre handy with a spanner and follow the right procedure you'll be fine.. but do it at your own risk.. if you get it wrong when refitting you can blow your turbos again within a few revs of the engine. I was in a similar position to you, had a mate in the trade so we did it ourselves. Im sure theres online guides for the 2JZ engine (mine is a 1JZ, very similar but different). Have a look here for a rundown of the procedure on a 1JZ to give you an idea. Bear in mind the engine isnt exactly the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 PS Stem seals produce different symptoms.. but if yo want to rule out things like valve seals and rings it may be worth popping it up to chris Wilson in Shopshire to give it a compression test and checkover before you start. Obviously he'll charge to look at it but its worth it for peace of mind... im 90% sure this is turbo seals though... but dont take my word for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Sorry to be blunt but I'd take it back and stick it up the dealer's @r5e. What's the point in buying a car that you then have to spend a four figure sum on to get in condition? You may as well put the extra money into getting a more reliable car. IMHO of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Thats providing he bought it from a dealer of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbad Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 Yep private buy. DOH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 theres still a small chance it could b other, simpler things. too much oil? wrong grade oil? blocked breather pipes? whats the inside of yr turbo to throttle body pipes like? take the big thick pipe off the turbo and have a look in there. a bit of sticky oil is normal, if its wet thru its yr compressor side oil seals. another good place to look is the big, long plastic pipe that runs across the car under the rad, its the lowest point and after the intercooler, so if its drenched in there u need new or rebuilt turbos. if all this shows up clean it still could b yr exhaust side oil seals. this will cause oil to leak straight into yr hot exhaust and burn there. what r yr spark plugs like? ive seen self rebuild kits for the turbos in the states but not many report them lasting very long after a self rebuild (suprise). i wouldnt recommend this from what ive read, but i have no personal experience of it. may b best to get it checked by someone who knows mkiv's. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 yep it could be other things.. definately dont take my word for it.. blocked breather pipes could also cause it, or a shot one way valve.. but this normally displays other symptoms as well. Get it checked out properly is the best bit of advice. Take it to someone who *knows* what theyre doing.. not just any old garage or tuning shop. Leon is in Milton keynes i think, and Chris Wilson is in Chester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbad Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 Thanks guys I'm going to get it looked at tomorrow in a Toyota dealer but I'll be checking the above pipes and things myself before I book it in for serious £££. Thanks eyefi & adi. I'm in Belfast NI so thanks for the contacts but they are just too far away. I've noticed the dipstick is showing slightly overfull, but I wouldn't expect it too blow off so much oil even on a slight overfill. Is this correct, experiences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Beware the toyota dealer.. theyre very often run by muppets who will misdiagnose your car and get you to replace far more components that are needed, and cost you much more money. Some are okay, but most are awful.. having said that you could be lucky and get a mechanic who knows his stuff. Have you a reputable japanese tuning shop in belfast area who could look at it for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinL Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Originally posted by sinbad Thanks guys I'm going to get it looked at tomorrow in a Toyota dealer but I'll be checking the above pipes and things myself before I book it in for serious £££. Thanks eyefi & adi. I'm in Belfast NI so thanks for the contacts but they are just too far away. I've noticed the dipstick is showing slightly overfull, but I wouldn't expect it too blow off so much oil even on a slight overfill. Is this correct, experiences? If the oil is overfilled I would get it drained and the correct amount and grade of oil put in first. See for your own eyes if the problem has gone away or not. To my mind there is no point trying to diagnose the problem until the basics are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 yep i must admit im slightly biased towards saying this will be turbo seals, as i had it happen to me. It could be other things and my opinion is based on the assumption that the rest of the car is okay. Have a poke around and a fiddle, get it checked over completely.. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbad Posted March 28, 2003 Author Share Posted March 28, 2003 Originally posted by GavinL To my mind there is no point trying to diagnose the problem until the basics are correct. Thats what I'm thinking as well. I need to look into the area of specialists over here, there certainly are a lot of Scoobys about so I need to ask and see if I can come up with somebody. Thanks for the help guys. FYI, on driving to and from work last night and this morning I would say it is worse when the car is warm. It also blows some smoke when the engine is hot and I take my foot off the accelerator, especially as the revs drop below @1300rpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 I have the same problem, or it sounds the same as mine. I recently changed the oil to Valvoline 5w-50, to cut a long story short Toyota did an oil change and put Castrol 0W-30. The car originally ran on Valvoline 5w-50. As you are probably aware the second number is how thick the oil is when it gets hot and the first number is cold start thickness, 0W-30 was just too thin. A quote from TorqueIC, they supply Valvoline. Valvoline Synpower is a fully synthetic 5w50 oil used in high performance engines. Having used Mobil oil for a number of years a few customers have found that in the 0w40 guise the Mobil1 oil is too thin and has passed the seals too easily on medium to high mileage cars. Combined with the high cost of Mobil1 a more than suitable option has been identified in the Valvoline Synpower. I replaced the oil and saw an improvement, mine did not smoke heavily though, just on occasion and how you describe. I have had the occasional puff of smoke, but very small and infrequent, unlike before. Still doesn't solve the problem, as something is allowing oil to seep through. Good advice above and on my thread about the same subject. My heart sank when people mentioned the turbo seals being knackered, because my car only has 39,000 on the clock. If you can, keep us posted on your findings and I'll do the same. Good luck. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbad Posted March 28, 2003 Author Share Posted March 28, 2003 Originally posted by eyefi theres still a small chance it could b other, simpler things. too much oil? wrong grade oil? blocked breather pipes? Oil is right at the top mark - no cause for concern. Wrong grade oil - maybe but there is a lot of smoke, something wrong that needs fixed, the oil may help but not cure (could it?). Originally posted by eyefi whats the inside of yr turbo to throttle body pipes like? take the big thick pipe off the turbo and have a look in there. a bit of sticky oil is normal, if its wet thru its yr compressor side oil seals. another good place to look is the big, long plastic pipe that runs across the car under the rad, its the lowest point and after the intercooler, so if its drenched in there u need new or rebuilt turbos. if all this shows up clean it still could b yr exhaust side oil seals. this will cause oil to leak straight into yr hot exhaust and burn there. I have looked at the two large pipes coming from the air box in the bottom left and left of the engine as you look at it. They are dry with only the tinest residue of oil. The pipe that runs behind and below the Rad and then comes up to the front of the throttle body has some oil residue, I will check the bottom of the pipe at work tomorrow when I get the car up on the lift. Is there only one pipe in this area, What does oil in here mean? Originally posted by eyefi what r yr spark plugs like? I haven't looked at them yet - what should I be looking for to differentiate stem seals vs. turbo seal failure Originally posted by eyefi ive seen self rebuild kits for the turbos in the states but not many report them lasting very long after a self rebuild (suprise). i wouldnt recommend this from what ive read, but i have no personal experience of it. If its turbo I will be getting them done at the Toyota garage. Genuine parts, etc. Originally posted by eyefi may b best to get it checked by someone who knows mkiv's. That was one of the reasons I liked the MkIV was the fact that there are not too many of them about over here. DOH. Guess its the Toyota garage or nothing. Originally posted by eyefi good luck Thanks, only problem is £££. Realistically what is the cost of new seals and labour time. Thanks for a ll the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 just remember how difficult it is to guestifix this without having seen it it does sound like exhaust side turbo oil seals, but its always best to make sure its not something simple Originally posted by sinbad the oil may help but not cure (could it?). no it wont really cure it but it may run alot better for a long time if it is oil weight. if u have a lot of smoke its unlikely to make a huge difference I will check the bottom of the pipe at work tomorrow when I get the car up on the lift. Is there only one pipe in this area, What does oil in here mean? compressor side turbo seal failure. a certain amount of oil is acceptable (milage dependant etc) but wet through is not. I haven't looked at them yet - what should I be looking for to differentiate stem seals vs. turbo seal failure u may b able to tell if u r burning oil in the combustion chamber. it sounds like the oil is being burnt after combustion in the hot exhaust. have a look on mkiv.com for the "how to read yr spark plug" page. generally valve seal will give a puff of smoke on startup, especially after a long period. it may also puff on setting off from a stop light. turbo seals tend to smoke on acceleration or letting off the accelerator, it may also smoke on idle. turbo seals (depending on how bad things r) tend to produce alot more smoke, james bond style eventually. the only way to b sure is proffessional inspection, they can b difficult to tell apart. If its turbo I will be getting them done at the Toyota garage. Genuine parts, etc. toyota will send them out for repair, they wont touch them themselves (god i hope not) they may try and sell u a new set. if u opt for repair try and find out where they will send them. That was one of the reasons I liked the MkIV was the fact that there are not too many of them about over here. DOH. Guess its the Toyota garage or nothing. they have probably never seen a supra before. a lexus garage might b useful. Thanks, only problem is £££. Realistically what is the cost of new seals and labour time. have a look at adi's first post in this thread. Thanks for a ll the help no problem, i might need a holiday in belfast sometime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbad Posted March 28, 2003 Author Share Posted March 28, 2003 Thanks eyefi, All signs are pointing towards turbo seal. The garages here have done some work on Supras before but not turbo seal replacement (of the 2 I have tried), there are larger dealers that I will try and get some idea of their experience on the MkIVs. Smoke level, yep its 007 for me. Come on over, we are a friendly bunch, might even buy you a drink or 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 One more thing.. if it is seals (as it looks like it is ) it will get worse very quickly (within a couple of weeks and it'll be pouring out). Im sure youre going to get them done asap anyway though. Toyota will be very expensive but i guess if its your only choice then you have to go with them. I wouldnt like fancy shelling out the labout for toyota to take them off and refit them though. The turbo repair is best done by a reputable turbo uotlet, but in theory any good garage can take them off and replace them for you, so long as youre sure of their reputation for work like this. One more bit, if you dont mind shelling out on thre or four hundred more.. go hybrids.. you wont regret it. adi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbad Posted March 28, 2003 Author Share Posted March 28, 2003 Ok I'll admit it, I'm a newbe. Please fill me in on Hybrids. What is the spec? What performance gain? Reliability? Do they look different (insurance)? What are the options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 look exactly the same.. only the internals are different. The advantages are that you will have the potential for big power, and you'll have more power than the stock units even if you dont play with them too much. Disadvantages.. more lag (higher up the rev range before the turbos comeonline, butonce they do you'll get more power). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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