Dnk Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) That is alright, but will let the machine shop to the rest as they probely have the more right Tool than i have, but is it a easy fix for the machineshop?? and can they do it with the crank in the engine, as i dont feel like taking it out, as thet will result in new bearings Why don't you ask your machine shop ? should be easy enough to make the piece i suggest if they have a lathe and milling machine. The method i suggested is to attempt to drill the bolt out with the crank still in the engine, i don't see how you'll get swarf/metal shavings in the engine doing it this way as you don't have to remove the sump. No guarantee this will work but i'd certainly try it as i could make the ring and have the correct drill bits. You could try using a small mounted point grinding tool in a die grinder to remove the broken torx bit and if your really careful the bolt itself, the tricky part of this job is not damaging the threads in the crank by wandering off centre hence making the ring i suggested Edited February 16, 2015 by Dnk (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Dunk has the correct ideas, you MUST use a jig to start a hole dead centre in the broken stub. Use inserts in the say 17mm hole opposite the broken stub, to allow incrementally bigger drills to be used. Open up to about 8mm initially. Tap in a suitably sized Torq bit enough to grip. Don't tap in something with such force it swells the bolt stub in the hole, it takes experience to have a feel for this unfortunately. If it doesn't undo easily apply heat to kill any Loctite. The other holes in the crank flange should show witness of any Loctite having been used. That mess is fast approaching the uneconomically salvageable state, if proper methods are not used from now on it'll end up as scrap. It is eminently salvageable if you do take the right steps though. I have saved many Nissan GTS-t heads with broken turbo manifold studs, flush with the head face, by using a proper jig and inserts to allow incremental drill size increases. If you break a drill you are probably defeated, it would then take spark erosion to get it out, and that would be crank out and more than a good used replacement shaft. Mr. Bodge might put it together as is with 7 new ARP bolts and try and forget their misdeed If Mr. Bodge does involve himself make sure there are burrs stopping the flywheel sitting flush... The pitch circle diameter of the flywheel bolts means any imbalance from one missing will be fairly minor. Especially as some of it remains in the flange. EDIT, I see there's a broken Torx bit in there, they are usually fairly hard, but not VERY hard like an Ezi Out. The right drill bit material will drill one, but this is fast approaching leave a bolt out, or find another crank status... Edited February 16, 2015 by Chris Wilson (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza800 Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) i got i fixet by the local machineshop, but i did cost a little on the thread length, about 2 - 3 mm less than stock... is it posible to stll use the stock torque, or should i give that one bolt a Little less torque than the others??? Edited February 16, 2015 by jza800 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Do it by feel, or get someone used to torquing bolts to do it. Use a new seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza800 Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 ok, so it would be alright not to torque to spec then?? yes there would come new seal on the crankshaft and 8 new bolts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 As I say, someone with a feel for bolt threads and torques could just tell if it would take full torque. It should if there's still 1.5 to 2 times thread diameter of perfect thread left in the flange. You could Helicoil it, but you should do it with a jig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza800 Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 there is 5 times thread left, but that is as you can see in the Picture in the end, it looks like it is missing 2 to 3 times thread.. o i dont now how far the bolt goes inside the crank.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Not number of threads, I mean multiples of thread DIAMETER. So if it's a 12mm thread you need 18mm minimum length of thread engaged to allow safe full torque (1.5 X 12mm). http://www.cncexpo.com/ThreadEngagement.aspx . Edited February 16, 2015 by Chris Wilson (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza800 Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 I know it's very hard to see, but how much do you think I have i my thread?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Count them, then multiply by the thread pitch! Personally I would say you need to get a very good experienced mechanic to tighten the iffy one for you. Put some red Loctite on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza800 Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) I have new bolts, and there are red loctite on them... but if you look at the Pictures, how much would you say, it look like there are 5 and a half good thread from the bottom, and to where the damage thread are... i dont now the thread size.. do you now how far they do in?? all to the end or?? i found this on the web.. Factory OEM 2JZGTE flywheel bolts are M10 x 1.25 x 21.50mm The factory 2JZGTE flywheel, where the bolts pass through is 12.50mm thick the threads in the end of the crank are 18.50mm deep to bottoming out. Edited February 16, 2015 by jza800 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza800 Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 And what are the chances for engine damage, when the guy have used hammer and a punch ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 1.5 x 10 equals 15mm ideal minimum thread engagement. All I can say is get a good mechanic to torque that bolt by hand, probably not the hammer and punch guy.... I would imagine any damage he has done will be visual, it would take Popeye after six cans of spinach to do bending damage to the end of the crank with a pin punch and hammer Just nail it back together and don't do drag race type starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza800 Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 ok, have done some new messument, when the bolt is gone thru the flywheel, i have 12mm off thread on the bolt.. and as there are 2mm to the thread on alle the others, i only need 5mm off thread to match the others one... ok, have just thought of bearings, etc. at the bottom would be damage from the shock it gets from the hammer and punch ;D but if you say that i not posible you should now sorry for the maybe same quistions, but have put so many hours in this engine, and will cried my balls off if anything happen with this engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 No it won't have harmed any bearings, the inertia in a 60 odd pound crank fully supported is far more than even a 2 pound ball pein hammer wielded by a gorilla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza800 Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) ohh thanks, it really helped a burden from my Heart, then i only have that last shit burden, and that i that bolt,I dont have any mechanic that is much better than myself, so it will be myself that i gonna span the damn bolt, so could really need some more advise on what the minium i can tighten it and it still keeps it all together as it was done to the Toyotas instruction.. as i dont want to have to be carefull with the car, it should could be used as it was provided, cruise trips, and hard runs i really now that i can be very difficult i am very sorry Edited February 16, 2015 by jza800 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Good threads 36 lbs ft Bad thread maybe 30 ft lbs and leave it be then. I would use liquid Loctite on the bad one, not the dry stuff on the new bolts. But I still would just do the bad one by feel if I was doing it and sod the torque wrench. Why do some photos show the crank in the block, and some with the crank out??? Edited February 16, 2015 by Chris Wilson (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Good threads 36 lbs ft Bad thread maybe 30 ft lbs and leave it be then. Are the stock flywheel bolts not yield tightened then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Good point, Google shows some people quoting 36 ft lbs plus 90 degrees. My factory manual shows 36 ft lbs, period. See attachment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nootysupra Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) I've only ever gone to 36lbft. Just throw the damn thing back together and stop worrying about it. As above though, on a dodgy thread, you NEED to have someone experienced tighten it, it's no good coming back on here and saying it stripped off at 26.2748573 lbft. Anyone used to working on French Sh1t is a good bet. Edited February 17, 2015 by nootysupra (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I've only ever gone to 36lbft. Just throw the damn thing back together and stop worrying about it. As above though, on a dodgy thread, you NEED to have someone experienced tighten it, it's no good coming back on here and saying it rung off at 26.2748573 lbft. Anyone used to working on French Sh1t is a good bet. I am liking the way this new guy thinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza800 Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Good threads 36 lbs ft Bad thread maybe 30 ft lbs and leave it be then. I would use liquid Loctite on the bad one, not the dry stuff on the new bolts. But I still would just do the bad one by feel if I was doing it and sod the torque wrench. Why do some photos show the crank in the block, and some with the crank out??? many thanks chris, if you say that 30 ft ibs is ok and i can have no worries, i will leve it at that as to you other quistion, all off the Picture is with the crank in the engine, have just taken the rear main seal off on those Pictures with the blue paper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nootysupra Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) So, did it strip? Edited February 17, 2015 by nootysupra Being a spaz (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 You mean "strip", no more likelihood of a bolt head rounding off in a bad female thread than a good one. The thread's the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza800 Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Dont now yet, havent come around that yet, But Hope not, i gonna trust Chris on this and follow his experince on this, as he do a lot off supra, so if someone should now it is him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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