Best brake upgrade for a Supra?

[JackyBoi]

I know that there's been a thread on this in the past but I can't for the life of me find it, so I'll start this new one. I want to upgrade my brakes on the Supra since it's going to have more power, but I'm not too familiar with makes/brands and their individual advantages and disadvantages. I've been told UK spec discs and pads are more than enough, but I've also been told that K-Sport is excellent value for money, but I've also been told to go all-out and buy Brembo/AP Racing, but I reaaaaaaally don't want to spend this much money on brakes. So, what's your recommendations guys?

[Hitbox Junkie]

Dont be cheap, money spent on the power will be worth less if you cant stop in time.

 

Any ways UK brakes are far better than j-spec. The 3 above i would say are great I'm sure a expert will be along soon

[JamieP]

UK's are great brakes, peddle feel is never very good I've found, ive always loved the Brembo kits. Reliable, strong brakes with good feel.

[Chris Bailey]

UK spec brakes with uprated pads are good for a road car, but they are very heavy and pedal feedback isnt great.

Another option would be the LS400 brake conversation, alot lighter than the UK spec setup and just as good if not better than the UK setup.

 

K-Sport brakes are an upgrade to UK spec brakes, but it is a budget big brake kit.

 

Your best bet would be Brembo, Alcon, AP Racing brake kits, but as you say they are mega money. Even parts are not cheap, but you get what you pay for. They would be reliable and customer support I've heard is great.

[a98pmalcolm]

I have Brembo's there a good brake. But If you want to go cheaper K-Sports I hear a re good.

[Nic]

What brakes do you currently have fitted? yours is a 2001 TT so I'd have thought it would have been factory fitted with the larger 4pot/2pot brakes.

 

Pics here is you are not sure http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?249089-Supra-Brake-setups

 

I've been told UK spec discs and pads are more than enough, but I've also been told that K-Sport is excellent value for money, but I've also been told to go all-out and buy Brembo/AP Racing, but I reaaaaaaally don't want to spend this much money on brakes. So, what's your recommendations guys?

 

The larger Supra brakes in good working order, with decent pads, braided lines and master cylinder stopper are very good and more than up to stopping the car on the road and track from silly speeds. The only down side is that they are heavy, fitting bigger brakes won't stop you any quicker but they can save a lot of unsprung weight.

[Fizzy T]

There's a guy on facebook who has started selling big brake conversion kits for Supras etc... Brembo SRT8 calipers

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Brembos.SRT8.Conversions/

[Chris Wilson]

What are you using the car for? Short of out and out track day usage the stock UK brakes are more than adequatem given good pads and good condition calipers. Braided hoses make a noticeable difference in pedal firmness. Race fluid makes absolutely no difference to stopping distances, but will not boil until later, but is unlikely to be worthwhile for road usage. It absorbs water quickly, and if not changed regularly can cause corrosion issues and soon degrades to worse than "normal" fluid. Even Jap spec brakes can be made to survive hard track usage, albeit with exotic pads and fluid, and high attrition.

[jonc]

I fitted Lexus LS400 calipers with OEM discs, a new master cylinder, braided hoses and a cusco stopper and the breaks are great. I set the free play up as laid down in the service manual and the brakes stop on a dime and the feel is immediate.

 

I suppose with the stopper and master cylinder I could have paid for more expensive calipers but I believe brakes are about the whole system

[j_jza80]

What are you using the car for? Short of out and out track day usage the stock UK brakes are more than adequatem given good pads and good condition calipers. Braided hoses make a noticeable difference in pedal firmness. Race fluid makes absolutely no difference to stopping distances, but will not boil until later, but is unlikely to be worthwhile for road usage. It absorbs water quickly, and if not changed regularly can cause corrosion issues and soon degrades to worse than "normal" fluid. Even Jap spec brakes can be made to survive hard track usage, albeit with exotic pads and fluid, and high attrition.

 

What are your thoughts on using the 4 pot LS400 calipers? Do you still do pads for them?

[supra_ufo]

Ive been researching this subject not so long ago...

 

If you do not have the mechanical knowledge I would go k sport (new) fronts and UK rears

 

The reason for this is for a 2nd hand set of UKs your paying 600 including discs and pads, then you need to think about rebuilding them, new seals pistons painting etc add 500+ (shave a 100 if you can do this yourself) then your in new k sport territory and for that you get new brakes, discs and pads. If you look you can get a set of UK spec rears for a decent price.

 

With the k sport you have 8 pot vs 4, alot lighter and probably look a lot better (and from reading threads from "themanwithasupra" who uses his k sports on track, the braking is supposed to be excellent).

 

Now I went with UKs and the only reason why I did, is that I got a complete bargain but if I didn't ^ that would be my setup.

[JackyBoi]

What brakes do you currently have fitted? yours is a 2001 TT so I'd have thought it would have been factory fitted with the larger 4pot/2pot brakes.

 

Pics here is you are not sure http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?249089-Supra-Brake-setups

 

 

 

The larger Supra brakes in good working order, with decent pads, braided lines and master cylinder stopper are very good and more than up to stopping the car on the road and track from silly speeds. The only down side is that they are heavy, fitting bigger brakes won't stop you any quicker but they can save a lot of unsprung weight.

 

All I know is that they're the Japanese spec brakes all-round. I think I might go for what supra_ufo suggested and go K-Sport fronts with UK spec rears, but I'm also tempted to just go UK all-round as I use my Supra as a road car... For now

[supra_ufo]

just realised you just bought the big twins, personally with that sort of power I would be going big brakes all around but as a minimum go with my suggestion and when you can afford it swap the rears for k sport. Im no expert but i think thats the best cost effective solution also taking into consideration your up and coming power

[JackyBoi]

just realised you just bought the big twins, personally with that sort of power I would be going big brakes all around but as a minimum go with my suggestion and when you can afford it swap the rears for k sport. Im no expert but i think thats the best cost effective solution also taking into consideration your up and coming power

 

Seems the best way to go for now, especially If I'm gonna be getting some CCW's too

[Benjy]

I've got some AP Racing 6 pot calipers kicking about - you'd just need adaptors to bolt them to a Supra hub and discs. Not sure if the bells would be of any use on a Supra or not, although the stud pattern is correct.

[supra_ufo]

4k tubby, 3k wheels and skimping on the brakes ?

[tkddav3]

My misses 350z has 6 pot ap's up front and those stop very well not cheap

Though

[Nic]

All I know is that they're the Japanese spec brakes all-round. I think I might go for what supra_ufo suggested and go K-Sport fronts with UK spec rears, but I'm also tempted to just go UK all-round as I use my Supra as a road car... For now

 

There is no such thing as Japanese spec brakes and UK spec brakes. Supras were fitted with one of two brake options, the smaller 2pot/1pot brakes or the larger 4pot/2pot brakes. All UK spec Supras were fitted with the larger brakes, the J-spec Supras were fitted with the smaller and larger brakes, in fact there were more J-spec Supras factory fitted with the larger brakes than the total amount of UK spec Supras made, so calling them UK spec brakes is a complete misnomer.

 

This is why I asked what brakes you have, because on a 2001 TT I would expect you already have the larger brakes fitted.

[JackyBoi]

4k tubby, 3k wheels and skimping on the brakes ?

 

I didn't originally accommodate the wheels into my budget, so I had to cut out a number of things, including not spending 5k on brakes [emoji6]

[Tsia]

Aren't tyres the main factor in stopping distance anyway? I went from the ' J spec' to 'UK' (Sorry Nic!) brakes a while ago, can't say the stopping distance seems too much different.

[ManwithSupra]

Aren't tyres the main factor in stopping distance anyway? I went from the ' J spec' to 'UK' (Sorry Nic!) brakes a while ago, can't say the stopping distance seems too much different.

 

Yes very much so.

The better your tyres grip the more energy you can transfer to the brakes.

 

You could have the best brakes in the world, but if your tyres have bad grip you will never release the potential of the brakes.

 

As some others on here have already said I have the Ksport kit on my track car. I have found them to be reliable and so far had no hassles.

Yes they are a cheap kit and lots of people frown on them however to me they were a clear marked improvement over the UK's I had on my previous Supra and the Track Supra, mainly for the pedal feel, not to mention they are a lot lighter which helps with reducing unsprung weight.

 

Its surprising to see peoples reactions in the car, they always comment on the how savage the braking is and are always surprised it is a cheaper kit.

However that said, my car is set up properly for the track and I am using descent pads, fluid and rubber so within reason similar braking could be achieved using UK's.

 

I will upgrade to an AP racing setup one day as it seems KSport and other cheaper brands change their designs from time to time so this scares me with part availability.

However for now they have been as good as the other more expensive setups I have been out on track with.

Edited February 5, 2015 by ManwithSupra (see edit history)

[Nic]

I didn't originally accommodate the wheels into my budget, so I had to cut out a number of things, including not spending 5k on brakes [emoji6]

 

Have you checked which brakes you currently have fitted? http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?249089-Supra-Brake-setups

[Chris Wilson]

Aren't tyres the main factor in stopping distance anyway? I went from the ' J spec' to 'UK' (Sorry Nic!) brakes a while ago, can't say the stopping distance seems too much different.

 

 

I wrote this years ago:

 

Brake upgrades can set out to try to achieve several objectives.

The commonest are to increase resistance to fade and or increase

braking effort for a given pedal effort. IE, the pads are

pushed against the discs harder for a given pedal effort than

before the upgrade, or the brakes will stop the car from 100 MPH,

hard, for more times before fade sets in, than previously. The feel

from the pedal, that almost intangible quality, can also be addressed

and sometimes improved upon by brake size, or pad material changes, or

brake flexi hose upgrades to something less squashy than rubber.

It's easy to get carried away by the thought of brake upgrades.

The limitation in most cars as to how short a distance they can

stop in is tyre friction. Leaving aside pedal feedback, and fade,

it is almost certain that a Supra on stock Jap spec brakes will

stop in just as short a distance as one with an AP six pot kit on

it, a Brembo kit, Pauls KAD kit, or whatever. It may not feel to

the driver that it does, but usually such is the case if you just

nail the pedal as hard as you can. The fancy kits may *FEEL* to

stop the car faster, due to less pedal effort, and a better bite,

but in reality, if you hit the pedal as hard as you can with stock

Jap spec brakes, UK spec brakes, AP kit, KAD, whatever, the car

will stop in the same distance. Repeat this test 10 times and stock

Jap brakes may be on fire and long since faded, or the fluid boiled,

UK ones may be very hot and bothered, but the upgraded ones will

probably still be working within pad, disc and brake fluid temp

limits. Add in the intangible "feel" factor, and a desire to brake

as hard as possible, using as little skill as possible, but WITHOUT

relying on the ABS to take over, and for sure a well set up brake

upgrade may well allow more finesse.

 

Herein though lies the rub.

 

Upgrade only the fronts and the brake balance of the stock car may

well be compromised. Let's take stock brakes. You press smoothly on

the brake pedal with (say) 50 pounds force. The car stops fine. 70

pounds, the fronts are just beginning to lock (car makers ALWAYS aim

for the fronts to lock first, as rear wheel lock makes the car very

unstable and liable to swap ends). The rears are doing as much work

as the brake engineers deemed safe to prevent premature rear lock up.

The ABS cuts in, and maximum retardation has been reached. Now, take

a car with big front discs and calipers. Only 40 pounds pressure now

gives a smooth, lock free and powerful retardation. 50 pounds and the

new, more powerful, (for the same pedal pressure), fronts are locking.

The ABS cuts in. BUT, and this is the crux, those original rear

calipers and discs are still well below the caliper pressure where

they are able to achieve maximum retardation without fear of the

rears locking.

 

In other words the FRONT brakes are doing TOO MUCH work, albeit without

breaking into a sweat, and the rears are, to exaggerate a bit,

just along for the ride. The BEST scenario is to upgrade front AND

rear brakes, carefully ensuring the original balance of effort at any

given brake pedal pressure remains as designed, but that the more efficient

front AND rear brakes stay cooler for more hard stops, and that old

intangible "feel" from the brake pedal is improved, at lower rates of

driver effort on the pedal. The latter may or may not be good or

desirable, and can be engineered out by changing BOTH front and rear

caliper piston sizes, or pad areas. In a race car the balance would

be adjustable via 2 brake master cylinders, with a driver selectable

change in mechanical leverage effort between front and rear brake circuits,

one cylinder operating the front brake calipers, the other the rear. This

can also be achieved on road cars, but to do so is usually complex and

expensive, especially if ABS and brake circuit failure safeguards are to be

maintained. It is far easier to calculate the caliper and disc sizes, along with

pad area and compound to achieve this, as near as available off the

shelf equipment will allow.

 

Caveat. I said before makers engineer more effort on the front brakes to

encourage straight line stopping if the tyres are locked up . They err on

the excessive side, as, in the wet, the rear tyres can take a lot more

braking effort than in the dry, due to less weight transfer onto the front

tyres, as they will lock before as much weight is transferred when the grip

of the road surface is reduced. So adding yet more front brake effort worsens

this existing imbalance, especially in the wet. If it were not for the

ABS the front wheels would be locking up very early. On the Supra a

relatively sophisticated ABS allows some effort to be taken off JUST

the fronts, and an artificial and very inefficient balance is returned.

On cars with lesser (1 or 2 channel) ABS, or no ABS at all, a brake

upgrade on just one end of the car can be lethal.

[Jellybean]

I got the OEM kit to replace the seals on my OEM 4pot/2pot brakes , noticeable difference in pedal feel after , very easy to modulate the pedal now ; stopping power is excellent

 

04479-14140 Front Brake Caliper Overhaul Kit

 

04479-14130 Rear Brake Caliper Overhaul Kit

[Alex]

Anyone tried the StopTech full kit? Seems good VFM.

 

God it would be nice to try a full Brembo Monoblock kit with slicks on