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The mkiv Supra Owners Club

SRD to the rescue...!


Brazil

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I do feel for you, seems the car is cursed.

 

In the long run, I bet it would work out cheaper sending the car to the uk, get the right company working on it, a supra specialist that works on these cars evey day, fix all issues and road test for a couple of weeks before you collect.

 

completely agree...

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I never used the clutch peddle to start the car, but the car was also kept in a garage and started everyday in the morning and afternoon to move the car in and out of the shop and I can not tell they fired up the car.

 

still the car only has 1000 miles, is the thrust bearings that prone to failure from starting the car with clutch in? Crazy that you don't hear more of this issue..!

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

completely agree...

 

Yes I may have been a better, idea but what I was shooting for is having my own local supra specialist that knew the car and could offer continued service.

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Thrusts only exit the block or cap if they pick up. Commonest cause is a heavy duty clutch like a triple plate Giken being kept depressed when the engine is first started, the pressure on the thrust is immense, and they need clearance for the oil pressure to build and start a boundary layer. Similarly a clutch that's not been adjusted to have free play in it will, over a matter of hours, displace the oil on the crank / thrust faces and the next start up will be dry. the engine had the correct factory crank end float when it left here. My e-mails which I retain made the warranty position on modified engines (especially ones supplied part assembled and not fitted by myself) clear, and I do not believe I can be morally held responsible for this failure.

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I never used the clutch peddle to start the car, but the car was also kept in a garage and started everyday in the morning and afternoon to move the car in and out of the shop and I can not tell they fired up the car.

 

still the car only has 1000 miles, is the thrust bearings that prone to failure from starting the car with clutch in? Crazy that you don't hear more of this issue..!

 

There is a topic on the US forum about this, and saw something simular on a dutch build..

Edited by Jos (see edit history)
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Very sorry to hear this. Although the better option would have been to send the car to SRD in the first place, I understand why you used a local garage.

 

With that said I think at some point you need to cut your losses and move on. With no good supra garage local to you your always going to have problems.

 

If it's a high performance jap car your after maybe the best thing would be to break the car and buy something like a stock GTR.

 

whatever happens I hope it's works out for you.

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Very sorry to hear this. Although the better option would have been to send the car to SRD in the first place, I understand why you used a local garage.

 

With that said I think at some point you need to cut your losses and move on. With no good supra garage local to you your always going to have problems.

 

If it's a high performance jap car your after maybe the best thing would be to break the car and buy something like a stock GTR.

 

whatever happens I hope it's works out for you.

 

An out of warranty GTR has the potential to be much more of a money pit than a Supra.

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An out of warranty GTR has the potential to be much more of a money pit than a Supra.

 

Even if it is out of warranty you still have the dealer to take I to. Although it may be expensive at least hell enjoy the car more. If I remember correctly he's done less than 1000 miles in the last 3 years he's owned the car.

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Even if it is out of warranty you still have the dealer to take I to. Although it may be expensive at least hell enjoy the car more. If I remember correctly he's done less than 1000 miles in the last 3 years he's owned the car.

 

Furthermore I doubt it would be cost effective to ship the car over to SRD/whifbitz or any other UK supra specialist every time there's an issue.

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Startup is when most wear occurs on an engine. There is little to no oil pressure upon first cranking, so inadequate lubrication for a brief moment.

 

Pushing the clutch down on a car will 'thrust' the crankshaft, putting pressure on the thrust washers. Hence if you start a car with the clutch down repeatedly, the washers will wear at a higher rate. Eventually this will lead to crank walk, when the washers drop out and the crank is allowed more than the permitted movement back and forth.

 

Does this apply to all Supras or just ones with aftermarket clutches?

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Does this apply to all Supras or just ones with aftermarket clutches?

 

The stock clutch is light, so the effect will be lessoned. I'd still never get into the habit of starting any car with the clutch down.

 

I think the fact that modern manufacturers do it is probably to do with Americans who can't drive a manual, and they don't want to get sued when someone pins their neighbour against a wall by starting it in gear.

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Sorry to read this, once setup correctly a small single supra will be a reliable toy. Maybe try and find a stock engine long block , bung that in for now.

 

Triple plates are normally light so I very much doubt it has anything to do with using the clutch on start up, as far I was aware you only had to watch out when using the heavy duty single plate clutches.

 

But as James says, it's not a good habit to get into.

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The stock clutch is light, so the effect will be lessoned. I'd still never get into the habit of starting any car with the clutch down.

 

I think the fact that modern manufacturers do it is probably to do with Americans who can't drive a manual, and they don't want to get sued when someone pins their neighbour against a wall by starting it in gear.

 

Ok, good to know... Gonna make sure I don't do that anymore..

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That's bad luck fella, that is a common documented problem in the US, due to them all having to have the clutch pressed to start, it puts huge loadings on the thrust bearings, and forces all oil out of them, its also though to be responsible for oil pump failure in the US, which is a distinct possibility, as once the thrust bearings become damaged/worn it allows the crank to move forward and put lateral pressure on the pump gears, which along with the casing are not designed for this load, and so wear prematurely.

 

When I bought my Nissan 350GT the first thing I did was disable the clutch switch to avoid just this problem, its know on a few other cars too.

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Furthermore I doubt it would be cost effective to ship the car over to SRD/whifbitz or any other UK supra specialist every time there's an issue.

 

Build it right once and there are hardly any issues. Other than regular maintenance which any grease monkey should be capable of

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US market cars have an interlock. It's because the vast majority of people are more used to automatics, which can't start up in gear and shoot forward or backward. Put them in a manual with no starter inhibit switch on the clutch pedal, and they will move if started in gear. Aftermarket clutches are a much higher thrust pressure, Giken keep a light clutch by clever dynamic ratio movement, it's why they do their own clutch movement reversal kit. Thrust loads are still much higher at the crank than a stock clutch, triple plates often more so than a single or twin plate. Starting any car in gear with the clutch depressed is going to lead to more thrust bearing wear than starting in neutral and running with the clutch not depressed until all oil flow is established. I am afraid this is classic clutch mal-adjustment, or poor start up procedures, especially as the owner states it was started regularly after standing short periods. Maybe it was started with the clutch depressed? Maybe the clutch had no free play introduced? With luck a good used crank, a set of thrusts and shells, and a new pump will fix it. Bad luck would be the block's machined thrust faces are damaged. If it picked up the thrust bearings on the crank, and just twisted them instantly out of the block, the block's probably still fine. The photos suggest this may well be the case. If the bare metal faces of the thrusts span for long *IN* the block then damage to the block will have occurred. A good used block would be cheaper than machining and making over sized thrust bearings. This is why I have always stated that I prefer to fit clutches myself, incorrect adjustment can have issues far beyond operation of the clutch itself.

 

 

Feel free to send be high resolution photos of both faces of the thrust bearings. ideally take the thrust mount main bearing cap off and send high res photos of both sides of it on the bench. Look at a few main bearing shells, are they still OK? The lack of shrapnel on the funnel gauze is promising. What was the oil pick up strainer like, any shrapnel in it?

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