johnny g Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 If I was to do another Supra build again, I'd be looking at a forged block with a balanced rotating assembly. Something like a GTX35R, divided housing; some mild cams; Auto Diff on 17/18's with some UK brakes and CW suspension with fast road alignment. Walbro 400 pump, ANSU 1000's and the new HKS clutch that JamieP is running. If you want more power top end, you can always have gear dependant boost for more power in the higher gears. And rather than more power, get some driving tuition. You'll go quicker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpobor Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 what a nice thread!! i was looking for such a debate for a longa time.. as far as i understood (and i could actually confirm these on some of the reply here) that torque is far more "distructive" than power itself.. so basically chop any power and torque under 4000rpm with a single help a lot rods and piston to handle big power at the top end.. is it trough? so basically if a supra had lots of torque specially on the low rpm range will be far more stressed even if the power is very low... i was sending couple of email to speed4sale regarding the twin turbo upgrade on usdm turbos... and they told me that Hagen even with 650\700hp (whiTch as far as what people also wrote on this thread "could" be met with stock internals) due to the massive tourque at very low rpm it has a built engine... it seems that single turbo conversion makes the 2jz even more reliable!! ps... on website when you look for forged pistons they generally cost 700 pound average.. but i don't understand if it's the price for one or for 6.... sorry....stupid question.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 £120 to £200 per piston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpobor Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 al right!! so the 700 pound was for the set!! i must say that for the peace of mind that gave you pist and rods are not so expensive!.... i imagine that the tuners to put it on correctly wouldn't be as cheap :):) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazz1 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 My motive has always been do it properly if I decided on the single route, nothing better than a bullet proof forged engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 My motive has always been do it properly if I decided on the single route, nothing better than a bullet proof forged engine. BUT i've seen stock single turbo engines out last built ones??? the debate goes on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 BUT i've seen stock single turbo engines out last built ones??? the debate goes on It really depends who builds the engine, though. There's only 2 I'd use. CW or SRD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nicholas Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Geo, have you thought about just buying a brand new block from Toyota and starting from there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Budz86 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I think half the fun is in building it. Great sense of achievement if you've not done it before and want to learn. Was a little surprised to read that you're planning on reusing the stock pistons mate, assumed you'd go with uprated pistons, rods, bolts and bearings. Nowt wrong with the stock setup, but always nice to know you're not pushing things close to their max. More time on the road and less in the garage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpobor Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 may i say that from a non mechanic a block look like a big puzzle... only bits and pieces to remove and then put it back... i'm sure that i'm missing something here (like balancing rods, piston crank... whitch i beliave you need professional tool) but cams, clutch, rods and pistons look like something that if you have the time to do it (like 1000 times the time of a professional tuner) and the toosl and the place to do it look pretty "plug and play".....complecated and time consuming of course.. i mean there are on this forum thourough guideline on do many things on the engine...... like a complex "hobby".... :) but maybe is very stupid wwhat i'm saying... hope someone catch what i'm saying.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxluc Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 The sound of a 2JZ at 8000+ rpm is simply awesome .... I would never go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaan W Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Geo, have you thought about just buying a brand new block from Toyota and starting from there? Not for a little over £2k I doubt, no sane person would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazz1 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 It really depends who builds the engine, though. There's only 2 I'd use. CW or SRD. This SNAP, plus stock engines are now nearly 15-20 years old so I'm sure things are bound to need replacing sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 I think half the fun is in building it. Great sense of achievement if you've not done it before and want to learn. Was a little surprised to read that you're planning on reusing the stock pistons mate, assumed you'd go with uprated pistons, rods, bolts and bearings. Nowt wrong with the stock setup, but always nice to know you're not pushing things close to their max. More time on the road and less in the garage! only thing that wont be changed is the pistons and rods, everything else will be uprated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little num Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) im with luxluc on this, I have 700hp and more to come and I love to run it full boost all the time, and its so nice to drive although it scares the crap out of me I love it.. Id never go back to 450 being the most power I have, and knowing you have a car that will outrun pretty much anything you come across just makes it feel special. I have a built 1JZ - 2.5 amd I have done all the work myself and when I have finished a trackday and all loaded up ready to go home I look at the car and say I did that, and there is nothing like having a great day and knowing I did it all. I have CP 77MM pistons - TOMIE rods - HKS 264 CAMS - BORGWARNER S300 billet turbo - 6BOOST manifold - twin bosch 044 pumps feeding the 850 injectors staged. rev limiter is 8200 and its there before you know it. Edited November 4, 2014 by little num (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 George, going on what you said up top, about always raining wanting a fast road car. Why not build a GTX35R (or equivalent) single and aim for 500-550bhp with monster spool - and properly sorted suspension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignum Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 im with luxluc on this, I have 700hp and more to come and I love to run it full boost all the time, and its so nice to drive although it scares the crap out of me I love it.. Id never go back to 450 being the most power I have, and knowing you have a car that will outrun pretty much anything you come across just makes it feel special. I have a built 1JZ - 2.5 amd I have done all the work myself and when I have finished a trackday and all loaded up ready to go home I look at the car and say I did that, and there is nothing like having a great day and knowing I did it all. I have CP 77MM pistons - TOMIE rods - HKS 264 CAMS - BORGWARNER S300 billet turbo - 6BOOST manifold - twin bosch 044 pumps feeding the 850 injectors staged. rev limiter is 8200 and its there before you know it. The difference is you need to build a 1j to go above 550/600 whereas a stock 2j will take that all day. Also Geo is rebuilding himself so will have the satisfaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nicholas Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Not for a little over £2k I doubt, no sane person would I'd rather a brand new block than paint an old one, is £2k that much in the grand scheme of things? It's more like a speeding ticket when you're talking big power builds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaan W Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I'd rather a brand new block than paint an old one, is £2k that much in the grand scheme of things? It's more like a speeding ticket when you're talking big power builds. It's not but when he's talking about using stock rods and pistons it's a bit daft imo, I'm quite lucky to pick up a block for my build that only had 2000 miles on it which I know was flawless but given a budget for a build I think in most cases people would rather spend the money elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Supes Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Is there really a need for a new block? Unless there has been an issue with the engine, a hone and new set of rings should see it within the Mr T's tolerances. Failing that, you could bore and go with over sized pistons... I certainly wouldn't be purchasing a new block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 My motive has always been do it properly if I decided on the single route, nothing better than a bullet proof forged engine. But if what I am reading is to be believed and if my driving experience is anything to go by "road" and "light track" use will never really maximise a single turbo cars capabilities. Having a car that can go 100k miles on your build is pretty damn amazing but fairly pointless if you are going to drive it legally everywhere 99% of the time and drop one 1/4 mile twice a year. In reality how often does a 600BHP street car bash all 600BHP down on a road? I'd hazard a guess unless it's JP not very often, certainly not often enough to warrant building an engine that could sustain 600BHP for 100k miles. This drops you into risk management. How many runs at top power do you anticipate doing? What is the cost of replacing parts on the car if they go pop? Is this cost more or less than building the engine up to start with? I'm a high risk project manager for a living so I have quite a strong risk acceptance ethic. I'd be interested to see what sort of power you could push out of a stock N/A bottom end and for how long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Not for a little over £2k I doubt, no sane person would I did, on recommendation you must have spent twice that on paint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 many many many posts ago when i first joined the MAX you could push a stock Engine was 500bhp on a single, then it was 550, 600, 700, there is no set rules what YOU NEED to do, imo its down to personal choice/££££££ and how well the engine will be built. This thread could go on, and on, and on. The only way to see what happens is for it to be done, i hear you say well what if it breaks, WELL i'll fix it, simple. Im not building this car to be stuck into the garage and be admired, its gona be there to be ABUSED silly, if anything breaks i'll upgrade it simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxluc Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) its gona be there to be ABUSED silly, if anything breaks i'll upgrade it simple. If you can live with that Geo, then I would stick with your stock engine and upgrade it if you are forced to do so. My stock engine took a lot of abuse from the first single setup (550 bhp) in 2008, over 620 bhp in 2010 and 700+ bhp up to 2012. The stock engine had to cope with different single setups for 5 years ... an nothing broke in that time. Edited November 5, 2014 by Luxluc (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 many many many posts ago when i first joined the MAX you could push a stock Engine was 500bhp on a single, then it was 550, 600, 700, there is no set rules what YOU NEED to do, imo its down to personal choice/££££££ and how well the engine will be built. The way people tune their Supras is changing. It all used to be about headline power levels, but now people understand that on our roads it's all about 'area under the torque curve', responsiveness, reliability and usability. On my local roads (which I suspect are similar to yours) I doubt anything much over 500hp would be useable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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