jaw Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Hey guys, Struggling to come across an answer. I've bought a TT'd 5 speed NA and am pulling the engine - seems a good time to sort the gearbox to handle the power. But I'm a bit lost really - Trying to keep the budget down if possible, an uprated clutch etc but am I setting myself up for trouble if I try and go for bigger power on a 5 speed? can anyone advise what the top end of their capability is? 6 speed boxes here cost more than I paid for the car in full! cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasmt Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I tore my W58 box to pieces with my TT, was running bpu @1.0 bar. Trust me it wont last too long... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 You probably are looking for trouble if you increase the power*. From what I've read on here, the W58 5 speed box seems to be able to handle stock TT power, but not much more. *Bear in mind that it's torque that tends to kill gearboxes not power, but I know what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasmt Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 There are other options, R154 conversion or the v16# boxes but as you said they arent cheap, imo tho you wont regret spending the cash on a 6sp box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPG Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 There are other options, R154 conversion or the v16# boxes but as you said they arent cheap, imo tho you wont regret spending the cash on a 6sp box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraP-Z Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Ive read that there are some strengthening mods that can be done to the W58 box, exactly what they do? I don't have the foggiest, strengthened internals/bracing, im guessing that kind of stuff. Failing that, the R154 or the V160/161. David P's A343/0E Hybrid Auto box has seen some serious power figures, if you don't mind an auto. Theres been some success with the W59 Autobox from a 4runner, and there have been people who have used the 6 speed getrag transmission from bmw's - All with custom modifications to make it fit! Theres been so many different success/failure stories with the W58, it all comes down to how well its been maintained I guess. Its said it will hold TT BPU power, but it will be at its limits. Some people have blown it up being NA...not sure how that works. I will soon be finding out how well it can handle power myself, granny shifting time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 W58/9 mods and BMW Getrag conversion shown in this thread. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?260458-Mattsson-mkiv-RHD-LHD-and-NA-T-Convension Hybrid auto options found in this Group. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/group.php?groupid=57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 There *MAY* be a dog box internals kit for the W58. I have never looked. But it would be hell to drive and listen to in a road car. And if the kit is of any quality it won't be cheap. There's simply no substitute for drive line components used well within their torque rating. Speed costs money, it's that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaw Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) cheers all, interesting responses! will have a look at some of the links. While I like the idea of a hybrid auto, ultimately I want this supra to be the track toy that my last one never got the chance to be so I think I'll rule out going any auto routes sounds like I might have to put the stoppers on things until I find a 6 speed - can you guys clarify re the different boxes - seems like the options are: W58 - 5 speed supra? W59 - 4 runner box, also 5 speed? R154 - ? V160/v161 - supra 6 speed? Getrag e46 M3 350z box (possibly not reliable after 500 bhp?) Out of the box are the 6 speeds built enough to handle some serious power? Bit dubious about buying one so would probably look at getting it recond too - this is getting pricey! but might as well do it properly. Will see how easy I go taking the lump and box out - if it doesn't give me too many grey hairs I'll put it back in for now until I can come across a good box. (giggidy) Edited October 14, 2014 by jaw (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaw Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 I tore my W58 box to pieces with my TT, was running bpu @1.0 bar. Trust me it wont last too long... http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/13/uja5yne3.jpg ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasmt Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The r154 box is from the mk3 supra, there occasionally a whole conversion package for sale on here, mk3 forum or driftworks, 5speed and from what ive read they can take a beating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaw Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Cheers for that, I'm struggling to find much on them! First look suggests one could be had for much less than the v161 setup so could be a mid term stop gap.. have been having a search but struggling to find what's involved in the r154 or BMW getrag route - the more plug and play it is the better from my POV but balanced with the cost side of things.. The e46 M3 box is seeming like the most attainable route - plenty of manuals and SMGs available that can be converted to manual.. any advise on what's needed to fit? Edited October 14, 2014 by jaw (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaan W Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I would be inclined to sell the car and go for a TT auto if power is your thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaw Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Trying to avoid the auto route at the mo ideally - want the car for the track and as good as my old TT-A was, an auto just wouldn't give quite what I'm after.. Don't get me wrong, I'm not necesarily chasing huge power, but deffo want in the 550-700 bhp ballpark Car was bought for a bargain price due to the work needed so sticking with it either way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Just go V160/V161. It will probably increase the value of your car by a similar amount that you pay for one. Plus, you have off the shelf spares which you wouldn't get with a custom job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaw Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 yeah thats a fair point, think it might be the only way really.. Are there many differences between the two? I've found a supposedly brand new 160 that's not much more than a used box so I think it'l be bought given how much unknown used boxes go for - then there shouldn't be any worries between that and the internals.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Used gear boxes, like used engines, are a lottery. New, if budget permits, is always safest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaw Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Used gear boxes, like used engines, are a lottery. New, if budget permits, is always safest. yup sold the idea to me - I'm going to go brand spanking. Are they good for some decent power out of the box or is there anything worth strengthening beforehand? is there any difference between the 60 and 61? both fit in without mods? thanks for the feedback so far guys, saved me barking up the wrong tree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I think the ratios are slightly different between the none VVTi box and the later ones. AFAIK they are similar, torque handling ability wise. I believe you can get straight cut, dog engagement internals, but the stuff will be very costly. Most people manage to keep the six speed Getrag intact. Drag racing will be far harder on the transmission than circuit racing. For track days there is no reason whatsoever for the box to see a hard first gear start, and that's what really stresses things, especially if the car suffers tyre hop. If you are very serious there are some really nice pukka race boxes for front engine, RWD cars. I shoved a Swedish Tractive `box in my Skyline: http://www.skylineowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126814 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Mitchell Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Im running my 5 speed box with a stage 4 clutch, seems ok at the moment but wet weather has slowed me down lol.... feels very quick with a 5 speed box as ratios are different to a 6 speed... i like it.... if it blows it blows! cant put a time limit on second hand used parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaw Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 I think the ratios are slightly different between the none VVTi box and the later ones. AFAIK they are similar, torque handling ability wise. I believe you can get straight cut, dog engagement internals, but the stuff will be very costly. Most people manage to keep the six speed Getrag intact. Drag racing will be far harder on the transmission than circuit racing. For track days there is no reason whatsoever for the box to see a hard first gear start, and that's what really stresses things, especially if the car suffers tyre hop. If you are very serious there are some really nice pukka race boxes for front engine, RWD cars. I shoved a Swedish Tractive `box in my Skyline: http://www.skylineowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126814 That Tractive box is utter gearbox porn! Very nice! probably a bit beyond my needs at this point in time though as tempting as it is! The VVTI flappy paddle boxes - were they a different box altogether or based on the autobox? Or is it like the E46 Getrags where an actuator etc is installed on the 161? Don't have the interest in drag racing so don't need to worry about that - the way the tracks are set up out of the pits you're never going to see a hard start so thats reasurring. Im running my 5 speed box with a stage 4 clutch, seems ok at the moment but wet weather has slowed me down lol.... feels very quick with a 5 speed box as ratios are different to a 6 speed... i like it.... if it blows it blows! cant put a time limit on second hand used parts Yeah I spose - trying to avoid having to pull the engine again ideally - but if its for the sake of just getting it on the road I might run the 58 into the ground / take it easy and stand by for a brand new gearbox, have the cash at the mo but too much going on to justify $6k on a brand new box when a used one is half that. Possibly may just invest in a used one and have it reconditioned which will still save me a couple of grand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaw Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Can anyone give me a steer on the prices of a well used box in the UK? Have been offered one out of the blue - un looks like it's beein in a mid 90's car going by visuals; but the price seems pretty competitive, about $2.5k less than a new box.. given a rebuild is about $1k (going by a v rough quote I had) it doenst seem a bad price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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