Jays VVTi Single Turbo Paddleshift build thread

[Burna]

Syvecs hadn't done the R&D on the Tiptronic box before selling it as "Plug and Play", so no one knows how to map the box properly at the moment. So the gearbox currently has a mind of its own, changes gear whenever it wants, doesn't kickdown, manual mode barely works, gearchanges are slow and occasionally pretty violent, the gearbox lockup points are way too high up the rpm range (in first sometimes it doesn't lock up until almost 4k rpm) etc.

 

The only cure is to start from scratch, so Romain needed a stock tiptronic car on which he could scope the stock gearbox control to see what it's doing. Thankfully, with a lot of help from Paul, they've managed to secure a car to do the testing on. So it's really just a case of Paul, his customer and Romain organising a date.

 

Hopefully soon

 

So who covers the damaged caused to your Tiptronic box?

 

And surely before taking on the work it would have been checked that is was possible to complete the job?

[j_jza80]

The box isn't damaged mate (I hope ) it just the Syvecs ecu isn't currently controlling the gearbox very well at all.

 

Syvecs advertised specifically on their site "Plug and play" compatibility with the vvti Auto Supra, and even published a video on social media showing "full tiptronic gearbox control".

 

I bought the ecu based on those claims (I didn't get it from Whifbitz), and I didn't even think to question it given the amazing reputation that Syvecs has on here.

 

Whifbitz literally just plugged in everything I provided, so it's definitely not their fault

[Burna]

The box isn't damaged mate (I hope ) it just the Syvecs ecu isn't currently controlling the gearbox very well at all.

 

Syvecs advertised specifically on their site "Plug and play" compatibility with the vvti Auto Supra, and even published a video on social media showing "full tiptronic gearbox control".

 

I bought the ecu based on those claims (I didn't get it from Whifbitz), and I didn't even think to question it given the amazing reputation that Syvecs has on here.

 

Whifbitz literally just plugged in everything I provided, so it's definitely not their fault

 

Ah, so you spec'd your build on your own. As you say then it's no ones fault except being misled by Syvecs unfortunately. I'd be returning the syvecs and getting my money back, as it's not fit for purpose.

 

Lesson learn't I suppose that it's best to discuss with a garage/tuning company what you want to achieve, agree a price and time scale for them to supply, fit, and map the car, and only settle the bill when you are totally happy with the completed work. If a company isn't willing to have the confidence in their abilities to agree to that, then they aren't worth dealing with.

 

Oh and I really hope for your sake that no damage has been caused to the box, but I wouldn't be driving it anymore until all the issues are sorted out mate.

[Chris Wilson]

I have a customer with a Tiptronic in the same boat, so I feel I need to add a defence. I did say by phone and e-mail to physically get a ride or drive in a Tiptronic car under Syvecs control, or at the very least personally speak to the owner of such a car as to their satisfaction with how it all interoperates. That did not occur and a lot of reinstalling OE parts had to be done whilst the issue is resolved. Luckily nothing irreversible was done as I foresaw "issues".

 

I am no mapper but fear the worst in that so small is the potential customer base for such Tiptronic maps, and so time consuming it will be creating one, that it may never happen. Whatever, my take now is that Syvecs can fit and wire the ecu, I am no longer willing to put myself in an "inbetweeny" situation, it looks like a LOT of hassle, and far from plug 'n' play

[j_jza80]

Ah, so you spec'd your build on your own. As you say then it's no ones fault except being misled by Syvecs unfortunately. I'd be returning the syvecs and getting my money back, as it's not fit for purpose.

 

Lesson learn't I suppose that it's best to discuss with a garage/tuning company what you want to achieve, agree a price and time scale for them to supply, fit, and map the car, and only settle the bill when you are totally happy with the completed work. If a company isn't willing to have the confidence in their abilities to agree to that, then they aren't worth dealing with.

 

Oh and I really hope for your sake that no damage has been caused to the box, but I wouldn't be driving it anymore until all the issues are sorted out mate.

 

Yes, I spec'd it myself. But I did so after speaking to various traders on here, and with specific regards to the Syvecs, none of them showed any concerns to the setup working. But then, why would they question it if the ECU manufacturer said it could be done, and had been done? Lesson learned

 

Sadly, I don't have any choice but to drive it, as I'm having paintwork issues with my other car (I get all the luck...). It isn't being driven hard though.

[j_jza80]

I have a customer with a Tiptronic in the same boat, so I feel I need to add a defence. I did say by phone and e-mail to physically get a ride or drive in a Tiptronic car under Syvecs control, or at the very least personally speak to the owner of such a car as to their satisfaction with how it all interoperates. That did not occur and a lot of reinstalling OE parts had to be done whilst the issue is resolved. Luckily nothing irreversible was done as I foresaw "issues".

 

I am no mapper but fear the worst in that so small is the potential customer base for such Tiptronic maps, and so time consuming it will be creating one, that it may never happen. Whatever, my take now is that Syvecs can fit and wire the ecu, I am no longer willing to put myself in an "inbetweeny" situation, it looks like a LOT of hassle, and far from plug 'n' play

 

It would be easy for me to look back with hindsight and do things differently, but when a very well respected company claims full compatibility, and several respected garages never bring up any potential concerns, it doesn't really occur to the layman to question it any further. But they are going to sort this out, one way or the other, until I'm happy with the outcome. I expect poor Paul and Romain are sick of this car now

[MattP]

First time I have caught up on your thread for a while I didn't realise how much hassle the tip box mapping was giving you.

 

On the bright side your getting all the R&D done for us Tiptronic owners so we don't have to suffer

 

You made the right choice with your number plate location I do like having a Toyota badge on the front but it's personal preference.

 

 

I am planning on running a Syvecs with a Titan autobox so I'm not sure I will retain the gear readout on the dash yet it's a feature I do like about the VVTI dash cluster does yours still work?

[j_jza80]

Mine doesn't work at the moment, though I expect it to be fully working by the time they've finished. My reverse beeper doesn't work either.

[MattP]

Mine doesn't work at the moment, though I expect it to be fully working by the time they've finished. My reverse beeper doesn't work either.

 

The reverse beep I wouldn't miss to be honest haha

 

I understand that your currently keeping the tip box but do you think these problems can be resolved by fitting a pre Tiptronic Autobox or boost logic or Titan as they are all pre VVTI boxes and having the car mapped that way.

 

The only function I can think you might lose is our digital gear readout..

 

Syvecs and paddle shift are already compatible on pre Tiptronic autos and seem quite easy and reliable to use in comparison to our electrickery tiptronics.

 

I suppose it's more the principal you were told it is compatible and are now left with a Frankenstein until they can figure it out.

 

Hats off to your patience though J.

[johnny g]

Jay, would you not take this unfortunate opportunity to look at the SRD 8 speed or the Whifbitz 7 speed autobox upgrade? You'll bring your car hugely up to date as well.

Just a thought

[MattP]

Jay, would you not take this unfortunate opportunity to look at the SRD 8 speed or the Whifbitz 7 speed autobox upgrade? You'll bring your car hugely up to date as well.

Just a thought

 

If he does il just be perched here like a vulture to nab one of his tip boxes

[Chris Wilson]

Are any of these up and running yet? How much are they, all done and dusted? Is the mapping already proven via a Syvecs on the donor vehicle? On a Supra? I guess ditching the Tiptronic seems a retrograde step, but what price is put on sanity?

[j_jza80]

The reverse beep I wouldn't miss to be honest haha

 

I understand that your currently keeping the tip box but do you think these problems can be resolved by fitting a pre Tiptronic Autobox or boost logic or Titan as they are all pre VVTI boxes and having the car mapped that way.

 

The only function I can think you might lose is our digital gear readout..

 

Syvecs and paddle shift are already compatible on pre Tiptronic autos and seem quite easy and reliable to use in comparison to our electrickery tiptronics.

 

I suppose it's more the principal you were told it is compatible and are now left with a Frankenstein until they can figure it out.

 

Hats off to your patience though J.

 

I didn't really like the beep, but I miss it now it's gone

 

It would take a great deal of persuasion to get me to fit a pre tiptronic autobox. And from what I gather, the built autoboxes don't seem to like manual mode, or paddles as in the Baileys case.

 

I'm giving Syvecs the chance to put it right, as I think a bit of tolerance goes a long way. But that tolerance won't extend to a setup that doesn't drive at least as well as stock.

[j_jza80]

Jay, would you not take this unfortunate opportunity to look at the SRD 8 speed or the Whifbitz 7 speed autobox upgrade? You'll bring your car hugely up to date as well.

Just a thought

 

I would love to, but aside from the fact that I don't have a lot of faith in Syvecs gearbox control at the moment, there's just no way I can justify that outlay at the moment. Long term a box swap will be on the agenda.

[MattP]

Are any of these up and running yet? How much are they, all done and dusted? Is the mapping already proven via a Syvecs on the donor vehicle? On a Supra? I guess ditching the Tiptronic seems a retrograde step, but what price is put on sanity?

 

Jamie Fosters seems to be OK his is on Syvecs paddle shift with pre VVTI engine and boost logic box but I have never driven one so can't comment further.

 

I couldn't tolerate the boost logic shunt into reverse though it's spine shattering

Edited March 22, 2016 by MattP (see edit history)

[Ryan.G]

Jay,

As the person who did the design of the kit for the Supra VVTI Auto i feel I need to comment after many members have directed me to this thread.

 

The Syvec's VVTI Kit has been around for years but only until recently did the S6Plus ecu become available which had the I/O Compliment to run the Vvti fully from one box. After Whifbitz constantly asked me to do a kit for them even though i was extremely busy working on many other Projects i decided to try and help Paul by working on the kit.

 

A test donor car was brought down to Syvecs HQ which wasn't in a running state so i could not drive the car on the Dyno with a stock ecu to see how it ran. I explained to the customer and Whifbitz that this is far from ideal but i had the workshop manual for this box and had lots of happy customers running with the Pre VVTI Gearbox so i had a good base to start from as the boxes are very similar.

 

After a few days testing on the Dyno and the road i felt that the gearbox performed very well but needed the customer to drive to ensure that it worked well like before. The car had just gained over 200hp as well and he was extremely happy. He took it away but due to a Trans cooler fitting issue the box would get hot and shift slowly. This was then fixed by Whiftbitz and the customer brought it down again for me to personally look at. The box would then shift great and i have videos of this from us driving around to show Paul it was fixed.

I even have videos of us testing on the Dyno which Paul posted here. You can certainly see its working perfect and shifting very fast for a Slush box in manual mode. Also have videos from driving on the road with the customer.

 

 

After getting the thumbs up from the Customer and Whifbitz we decided to post the video on You tube and offer to others. Since then i have fitted one to a car in Dubai which the customer was very happy with, making 620whp and i'm told by sales we have sold 2 more kits to Europe.

Now this is over 6 months ago and i only heard recently from Paul that they were having issues with a car which found out is yours so i have asked Romain tonight to send me the latest calibration and Logs as what you are describing here is nothing to do with R&D.

 

"So the gearbox currently has a mind of its own, changes gear whenever it wants, doesn't kickdown, manual mode barely works, gearchanges are slow and occasionally pretty violent, the gearbox lockup points are way too high up the rpm range (in first sometimes it doesn't lock up until almost 4k rpm) etc. "

 

These are all calibration issues and I'm sure LeeP will comment and agree as he has fitted lots of Syvecs Auto kits and adjusts these himself now.

 

The only issue which may be something i have missed is that the torque convertor is not locking up in manual mode on overrun but again this can be changed in the calibration.

 

When i receive the logs and map i will send you an update. Please Pop me an Email here - [email protected].

 

Of course i appreciate you want your car running perfectly and I am sorry to hear otherwise, but blaming a company which has a perfect reputation on this board for poor R&D when you don't fully understand where the problem lies is not fair especially when the company is the leading ecu manufacturer for making kits for some of the most complicated cars in the world especially when no other solutions is available for your car. See why i am so confident to say the above here https://www.facebook.com/Syvecs

 

Ryan

[j_jza80]

Thanks for the message Ryan.

 

I would have rather not brought up the details of these ongoing issues on the open forum, as I believe in giving people and companies a chance to put their mistakes right. But equally if I'm asked a direct question from forum members, I feel it is only right to give frank and honest answers to them. I believe I have been pretty diplomatic given the circumstances, and looking at the other comments on this thread, I don't believe I'm alone in that opinion.

 

but blaming a company which has a perfect reputation on this board for poor R&D when you don't fully understand where the problem lies is not fair especially when the company is the leading ecu manufacturer for making kits for some of the most complicated cars in the world especially when no other solutions is available for your car. See why i am so confident to say the above here https://www.facebook.com/Syvecs

 

But this is pretty out of order, given the circumstances. It's true, I don't understand the 'ins and outs' of engine and gearbox tuning. That is why I chose Syvecs over something like Megasquirt, because I wanted a high end, highquality product, with a wide user/experience base, that would give me a hassle free experience. You sell the S6 plus on your site as being compatible with my car, and it isn't (although I have confidence that with work it WILL), it was your base map that didn't work. I'm definitely not at fault for these failures, as all I did was supply YOUR product. So are you trying to pass the blame off onto Whifbitz? Or on to Romain? I suggest you clarify who you think is to blame for the benefit of those reading, as if there's one thing I won't stand, it is bad mouthing people who have gone well out of their way to help me.

 

If this in any way affects your reputation, that is entirely the fault of Syvecs as far as I'm concerned.

[Ryan.G]

 

But this is pretty out of order, given the circumstances. It's true, I don't understand the 'ins and outs' of engine and gearbox tuning. That is why I chose Syvecs over something like Megasquirt, because I wanted a high end, highquality product, with a wide user/experience base, that would give me a hassle free experience. You sell the S6 plus on your site as being compatible with my car, and it isn't (although I have confidence that with work it WILL), it was your base map that didn't work. I'm definitely not at fault for these failures, as all I did was supply YOUR product. So are you trying to pass the blame off onto Whifbitz? Or on to Romain? I suggest you clarify who you think is to blame for the benefit of those reading, as if there's one thing I won't stand, it is bad mouthing people who have gone well out of their way to help me.

 

If this in any way affects your reputation, that is entirely the fault of Syvecs as far as I'm concerned.

 

Jason, if it was not compatible with your car how are you driving it now. Since i have posted my original post i have been on the phone with Romain who you surely know is a good friend, and now i have seen the calibration i can see where some of the problems are instantly. Some of these were set correctly in the Base map others not because the Green car calibration was used as a start which didn't have a DBW TB on the other donor car (see below)

 

Romain is new to the auto strategy and while he is an fantastic calibrator if you havnt worked with Auto control maps then it takes a while to get your head around but the main fault lies in that if it was known to not be 100% working correctly that it should not be giving back to you until correct.

 

Our Kits come with Base calibrations which constantly get updated and refined to make the end users job easier BUT its up to the calibrator to refine these to each customers build. This is not a reflash but a full standalone computer where everything can be changed.

 

While i appreciate that Romain has worked hard to get driving to your requirements and not how it was done in the base map for the other clients feedback/requirement. The one big issue is that the other car didn't have DBW to hold a given torque on overrun like stock because it had a huge intake and aftermarket TB so not on your map.

 

I am here trying to help but it seems you already know whats at fault in your mind. Its late here where i am now so signing off but you have my Email if you want my support.

 

If you still feel that its the ecu at fault then suggest you ask for a Refund and try with a piggyback onto the stock ecu (which i have tried and doesnt work properly as Throttle limps)

 

Ryan

[Pudsey]

Reading between the lines, and ignoring the awkwardness of the whole situation.

 

I am sure everyone is relieved a solution is now in the wings, even more so for the fellow tiptronic owners

 

Fingers crossed all will be well soon enough

[j_jza80]

If you bought a new remote for your TV, and only half the buttons worked with it due to calibration, would you consider that compatible? The fact that Paul and Romain are having to find a stock car to scope the gearbox on is a pretty clear indicator that there is obviously a gap in the information Syvecs has on these cars.

 

My car was away for over two months, a few weeks of which has been due to this issue. It has got to the point where it was starting to cost me money just being without the car (due to a paint warranty issue with another car I'm trying to sell on), and my hand was forced in that regard. I really didn't want to take it back until it was finished, as both Paul and Romain can confirm.

 

I haven't a clue what's at fault. I'm not a tuner, a mapper or even a mechanic, I can only relay the symptoms I'm having with the car while driving it.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with your product at all (and if you read the thread, you will see on many occasions I've been optimistic that you guys will get these issues resolved). But there IS obviously a problem at Syvecs end, as otherwise my car would be driving perfectly by now.

 

If you still feel that its the ecu at fault then suggest you ask for a Refund and try with a piggyback onto the stock ecu

 

Really? Me, Paul and Romain have all been sorting this situation out together, and working through it constructively, and as I've said before, I've been entirely diplomatic. I really would like your help, because I'm well aware that you're probably one of the most experienced Supra tuners in the world (and a thoroughly nice bloke from what I gather), and it can only help get my car to be the best it can be. But if you're really going to resort to ultimatums at this point, then leave me, Paul and Romain to it.

[Lee P]

I stayed out of this a little as I didn't want to step on anyone's toes.

 

We have done many full auto control syvecs installs now and it is a complex process dealing with the many functions and settings.

 

We have also had tip tronic gearboxes upgraded so know the differences internally.

 

The boxes are very similar to the early ones with the changes being, one extra solenoid, a more progressive lock up and slightly different clutch plates.

 

While we haven't actually mapped a tip tronic on syvecs yet I think it is possibly more to do with the calibration as Ryan has said.

 

If it doesn't cause any problems with anybody I would be happy to look at the car at some point and see if I can improve the drive ability.

 

Its hard to map the gearbox on a dyno and tweaking maps via email in this situation is also tricky so we could do some road mapping with it.

 

So if all else fails and your still having trouble drop me a pm and I will try and help if I can.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Lee P (see edit history)

[j_jza80]

Thanks Lee, that's very good of you I would like to give Romain the chance to see it through before I consider your offer, as with Pauls help they are getting there. but I really do appreciate it.

[Wez]

Has there been any updates on this?

[j_jza80]

Yes mate, but I was going to wait until we'd progressed a bit more

 

There were a couple if minor issues with the engine mapping, which have now been resolved. First of which is the car wouldn't start in one of the maps, which was the map I use most of the time (just my luck ). Also, when I was pulling up to a stop (at junctions etc) reasonably abruptly, the revs were dropping very low. I emailed a description of the issues to Romain and the following day he emailed me a new map.

 

To those of you unfamiliar with Syvecs, updated maps can be sent via email, then downloaded straight into the ecu via a laptop with a network cable port. The Syvecs software is free to download, and even for a complete novice to these things, is very easy to use, and intuitive. You can also it to monitor pretty much every conceivable sensor reading on the car. Once it's plugged in, you simply upload the new map, and save it to the ecu. So in literally 2 minutes my engine mapping issues were sorted. Very impressed

 

Ryan has had a look at the auto gearbox mapping, and I was sent an updated map after that too. It is a night and day improvement over how it was before, but still too unpredictable to be driven in auto.

 

As I mentioned before, Paul and Romain have secured a stock tiptronic car for testing, and I've been given a provisional date of the 4th of April for that.

 

So although the end still isn't in sight, we're making progress

[mellonman]

I thought Romain worked for syvecs as a mapper ? But if Lee P knows more about it then him its worth a looking jay if its free as a syvecs favour?, even if other parties are not so happy its your car im sure they would understand you position.

 

As for expressing the problems you have had I think they are totally valid as everyone can learn from this most all the traders.