Mk4Gaz Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 A cast manifold will be faster spooling, but you will have heat issues when you wind up the boost too much. Tubular manifolds allow much higher boost levels and more ignition timing. Usually, pump gas will give you much less power on a cast manifold vs a tubular one. You can use a cast manif in combination with ethanol though; this allows you to raise the boost without risking the engine. Great answer, thanks bud. Long shot I know, but do you have any idea at what boost levels the heat becomes an issue? I know different turbos will generate different temperatures at different boost levels, but is there a general rule of thumb? I've been doing so much reading over the last couple of weeks, but there seems to be a lot of conflicting advice! I wish there was an 'idiots guide' somewhere, with a list of pros and cons of various setups, and spool characteristics/power levels for the most popular turbo choices . Would make narrowing down an ideal setup much easier for a single newbie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 With the size of turbo and power you are looking at, a cast manifold won't be an issue. My personal choice for a fast street Supra would be to use a cast manifold setup with a Garrett GTX3582R turbo. I'd probably look to see if I could buy the Powerhouse Street kit without the turbo then source the turbo separately, at 1.5bar this setup should produce 550-600hp and be very responsive. dandan's car is a perfect example of the type of build I'd go with http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?194439-Dan-s-Supra-Project/page16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai 20V Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Hey Nic.. How about the HKS T04Z kit? How would it spool vs the GTX35R & cast manifold kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 HKS kit is nice, doluck car spools well, and that kit will 100% bolt straight on with no modding. Ignore my post above about the VWR kit, although very nice the screamer pipes hit the steering rack and needing modding, (designed for LHD car) was a right PITA to sort out. Saying that, to date I've not bought a Turbokit yet that has bolted straight on with no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bailey Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Dad runs a HKS T04Z, I'll get him to take you for a spin at the bluewater meet to give you a taster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk4Gaz Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Thanks chaps, just hoping the stock auto box is going to stay happy! Chris, that would be great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bailey Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Thanks chaps, just hoping the stock auto box is going to stay happy! Chris, that would be great! Dads stock box was okay for just over with the syvecs ecu cutting the torque during gear changes and we were running 560lbft back then. Helps to have 2x trans coolers aswell if running over 500bhp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxluc Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Great answer, thanks bud. Long shot I know, but do you have any idea at what boost levels the heat becomes an issue? I know different turbos will generate different temperatures at different boost levels, but is there a general rule of thumb? I've been doing so much reading over the last couple of weeks, but there seems to be a lot of conflicting advice! I wish there was an 'idiots guide' somewhere, with a list of pros and cons of various setups, and spool characteristics/power levels for the most popular turbo choices . Would make narrowing down an ideal setup much easier for a single newbie! To give you an idea, Kim from Germany has the CEA 6766 1.00 turbo with a cast manifold, I have the CEA 6766 1.00 turbo with a tubular (HKS) manifold. Here is Kim's build. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?298266-Kim-s-SRD-Billet-6766-Torque-Monster-Build/page8&highlight=kim+monster 654 rhhp & 590 rhqt at 1.7 bar on pump fuel 807 rhhp & 692 rhtq at 2 bar with 50% ethanol Here is my build http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?258248-Luc-s-SRD900-Supra/page34 756 rhhp & 598 rhqt at 1.7 bar on pump fuel 840 rhhp & 703 rhtq at 2 bar with 50% ethanol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Budz86 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Useful comparison there Luc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxluc Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Useful comparison there Luc Cheers mate. This shows how much boost you have to run on pump fuel to get high figures with a cast manifold. My tubular manifold did 658 rhhp @ 1 bar on the 6766 on pump fuel. Kim needed 0.7 bar more for the same power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai 20V Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 HKS kit is nice, doluck car spools well, and that kit will 100% bolt straight on with no modding. Ignore my post above about the VWR kit, although very nice the screamer pipes hit the steering rack and needing modding, (designed for LHD car) was a right PITA to sort out. Saying that, to date I've not bought a Turbokit yet that has bolted straight on with no issues. Thats what I want, no modding and fabricating... Yahoo Auction has some good deals on the T04Z kit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Here is Kim's build. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?298266-Kim-s-SRD-Billet-6766-Torque-Monster-Build/page8&highlight=kim+monster 654 rhhp & 590 rhqt at 1.7 bar on pump fuel 807 rhhp & 692 rhtq at 2 bar with 50% ethanol Here is my build http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?258248-Luc-s-SRD900-Supra/page34 756 rhhp & 598 rhqt at 1.7 bar on pump fuel 840 rhhp & 703 rhtq at 2 bar with 50% ethanol Would be great to see these two dyno plots overlayed, also what other differences, ie cams, stock or built engine, any increase in capacity etc EDIT: just looking again and the torque figures are almost identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxluc Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Yes Wez. The yanks call Kim's kit the Sound Performance Torque Monster kit. Quick spool and high torque due to SP cast manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxluc Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Both engines are built 3.0 (Kim 87mm pistons / I went for 86.5). Kim stage 3 head (SRD stage 1 cams) / mine stage 5 (SRD stage 3 cams). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Budz86 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Head work might explain some of that difference but the combination of that and the manifold is still significant for HP. Be interesting to see them side by side on the road as the torque is so close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Do you have both dyno plots to post here, after seeing the additional info im even more interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Come on Wez, about time you got back on the road mate, you know Jim (James) has one now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Come on Wez, about time you got back on the road mate, you know Jim (James) has one now? Indeed, mines not moved in a couple of years, I saw James motor last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk4Gaz Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Some great info here, definitely good to have real numbers to compare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Hey Nic.. How about the HKS T04Z kit? How would it spool vs the GTX35R & cast manifold kit? The HKS T04Z kit is very high quality and includes absolutely every nut, bolt, gasket, lines, fixings, heat shields, etc. for the install (other kits will need additional parts sourcing). The T04Z (which is made for HKS by Garrett) is a bigger - and older - turbo so will be a little slower to spool, both turbos should produce similar peak power. HKS sell the 14020-AT002 Turbo Setup Kit which is basically the T04Z kit without the turbo, that mated to a GTX35R would make for a very responsive fast street setup. The HKS kit also recirculates the wastegate back into the down pipe which for me is a big plus point and as it's designed to fit a Japanese Supra, fitment should be perfect unlike some US kits designed kits to fit a LHD Supra which may need modifying to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxluc Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) My dyno Kim's dyno Edited July 21, 2014 by Luxluc (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxluc Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Additional info. Sorry for my finger hiding the tq figures ; The blue plot (50% ethanol) hit 1600 tq around 4k. Every line above is +200 tq. Kim's setup spools quicker, due to the cast manifold and the milder cams (264 vs 280). Edited July 21, 2014 by Luxluc (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Wow, comparing those graphs you could argue its the same car, very very close indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxluc Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Wow, comparing those graphs you could argue its the same car, very very close indeed Both SRD creations. My head is more extreme than Kim's. The turbos are exactly the same. On the road, I don't think you will see any difference when both car's are running 50% ethanol ... Kim may have an advantage as he is used to the German Autobahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Kim's setup spools quicker, due to the cast manifold and the milder cams (264 vs 280). That is to be expected, you can see the cast manifold, cams and possibly extra displacement gives roughly 100hp edge at 4000rpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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