Gaz6002 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I saw this phrase in a thread today so thought I'd open up my own one for people who search for it. 'Matching numbers' is a phrase we're all going to have to become familiar with on this site. It refers to a car whose chassis number matches the mechanical components of the car. That means it's as Toyota intended and hasn't had an engine swap, a gearbox conversion or a diff replacement. A matching numbers Supra will always be more valuable than an equivalent modified version. For instance, a low-miles matching numbers UK-spec TT6 would be highly desirable, but less so if it's an import NA of the same year converted to the same specification. We're at a period now where it's likely the properly desirable Supras are going to increase in value fairly quickly, so I suspect we'll be hearing this phrase more and more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdavies Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 This is certainly something I know about in the Classic bike world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I hear the Americans using the phrase a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 It's a classic car thing really. The Supra is one now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Thanks Gaz. Here's a couple of questions: 1) To take the phrase literally, what numbers are supposed to match? If someone claims to have a matching numbers Supra, what could a potential buyer look for to verify that claim? 2) A related question: if a car has had a like-for-like part replacement, would it still be considered a matching numbers car? For example, if a UK TT6 has had its original gearbox replaced for another V160 (because of a fault with the original), would that car still be a matching numbers car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitch79 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Thanks Gaz. Here's a couple of questions: 1) To take the phrase literally, what numbers are supposed to match? If someone claims to have a matching numbers Supra, what could a potential buyer look for to verify that claim? 2) A related question: if a car has had a like-for-like part replacement, would it still be considered a matching numbers car? For example, if a UK TT6 has had its original gearbox replaced for another V160 (because of a fault with the original), would that car still be a matching numbers car? Gear box, engine, chassis I believe. (Sorry, re-read, where to find these numbers I'm clueless. Prob have to all original paper I'm guessing. And no, like for like swaps removes it from matching numbers also. Fast 'n' loud and wrecks to riches (USA) taught me that :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 generally the chassis and engine numbers are the big one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdavies Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 generally the chassis and engine numbers are the big one Was going to say that my understanding is the gearbox is a bonus but not a requirement for matching numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 Thanks Gaz. Here's a couple of questions: 1) To take the phrase literally, what numbers are supposed to match? If someone claims to have a matching numbers Supra, what could a potential buyer look for to verify that claim? The VIN. From there you can decode which engine, diff and gearbox should be fitted using the guides on here and tally everything up. 2) A related question: if a car has had a like-for-like part replacement, would it still be considered a matching numbers car? For example, if a UK TT6 has had its original gearbox replaced for another V160 (because of a fault with the original), would that car still be a matching numbers car? That's a very good question. Technically it wouldn't be a matching numbers car if any of the parts had been swapped for new ones, but obviously in some cases it's completely unavoidable. This situation should we dealt with in a car advert really to avoid any confusion. After all, a car that's done 21,000 miles on the original engine is going to be worth more than one that's had its engine swapped. There's the question of why it was swapped and also uneven wear on the rest of the car's components to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 Was going to say that my understanding is the gearbox is a bonus but not a requirement for matching numbers It affects the resale value of the car, and so has to be taken into consideration IMO. A converted auto is worth less than a true manual car since it's been modified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evinX Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Manual conversion just got crossed of the wish list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveR Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 This is only strictly relevant if you intend ever to sell your Supra. Mine IS still "numbers matched", but as I intend to be buried in it I'm not going to sweat that situation being changed if there's a modification that I want to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 This is only strictly relevant if you intend ever to sell your Supra.Or buy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littler Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 This is something I'm familiar with in e-types and is something I'm looking at with buying my next Supra. Are there chassis numbers on the engine block or gearbox? Daft question I know but from having a number of engines and gearboxes in the past I can't recall seeing a reference to the chassis it came from (I can't say I've particualarly ever looked though )? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitz Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Funny thing is, I was watching some Car Restoration show on TV 2 nights back and they had an old classic on there (cant remember what now) - Corvette Stingray I think? and this is exactly one of the arguments they had in terms of value. They did find the guy who used to own it and then rebuild the original engine etc as he still had it in a lockup. Agree though, hence why my car will be worth pennies in future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsia Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I guess I'm in the group that couldn't care less if numbers match, as long as it's in good nick and runs well, i'd be happy to purchase. Will be checking my own tonight, though it's so close to standard that I can't see them not matching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 That's a very good question. Technically it wouldn't be a matching numbers car if any of the parts had been swapped for new ones, but obviously in some cases it's completely unavoidable. You wouldn't really be able to tell if a like for like swap had happened on the engine, gearbox or diff as there is no matching numbers, just a code. Or am I getting that wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_jekyll Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 i don't care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.