Need advice, car won't turn over

[Swampy442]

Car - Toyota Aristo

 

Gearbox - Boostlogic auto (Ex jamesy) rebuilt.

 

Problem - Since I put the engine back in the car, I was just checking everything worked before I hooked it all up and started priming everything. Everything powers up, but when you turn the key, nothing, not even the voltage drop you'd associate with the attempted start.

 

What Ive checked - All earths are in place, all plugs appear connected, battery is good (12.4v) engine spins freely, dash indicates P, gearbox input rod disconnected from lever and manually pushed into the P position, 12v getting to starter, 12v getting to starter relay, all the plugs from the Aristo loom connect to the gearbox connections without hassle, attempted to start in N, same result.

 

Things to note - Car has Toad Ai606 alarm fitted but that appears to be functioning correctly.

 

So, with all the above info read and digested, can anyone offer a solution, even something to check? Could it be the Supra box has a different pin out for the neutral start switch? (clutching at straws) I do have a feeling it may be neutral related due to the lack of a current draw.

 

Help please

[Nodalmighty]

Does the relay click?

 

Lyndon.

[Guest Roger NE]

Unplug the Spade Connector that goes to the Starter Solenoid . . . connect a meter between that and chassis and check that there is is 12V when you turn the key to the Start position.

 

(and as Lyndon says, you may hear the Starter Relay near the battery click too)

 

If you DO, then the problem is your Starter Motor Solenoid.

 

If you DON'T (which is more likely) it could be lots of things.

 

Certainly MY Alarm/Immobiliser is wired to interrupt the Starter feed when armed, so you could have a bad connection or bad relay in your Alarm. (most likely thing)

 

Also as you're aware, there are various switches on an Automatic to prevent you trying to start in gear . . the wiring to those switches OR the switch itself could be faulty.

[Swampy442]

Cheers for the reply heroes

 

Does the relay click?

 

Lyndon.

 

No mate, no clicking or any sort of noise.

 

Unplug the Spade Connector that goes to the Starter Solenoid . . . connect a meter between that and chassis and check that there is is 12V when you turn the key to the Start position.

 

(and as Lyndon says, you may hear the Starter Relay near the battery click too)

 

If you DO, then the problem is your Starter Motor Solenoid.

 

If you DON'T (which is more likely) it could be lots of things.

 

Certainly MY Alarm/Immobiliser is wired to interrupt the Starter feed when armed, so you could have a bad connection or bad relay in your Alarm. (most likely thing)

 

Also as you're aware, there are various switches on an Automatic to prevent you trying to start in gear . . the wiring to those switches OR the switch itself could be faulty.

 

Ill try it but I also doubt it. It does appear to be the start switch but I don't know what else I can do on that front, the box is in P, the parking lock is engaged. Need to find some gearbox manuals to read through.

[Tayfun.tugra]

Just throwing some ideas out there...

 

If the car was in gear 1,2 or R without foot on brake, would the car draw current or react differently to N or P?

 

What's the brake switch doing? Brake lights working?

[Camry5Sgte]

Can remove the starter and send 12v across to see if it is actuating but the solenoid is a likely culprit.

[Swampy442]

Thanks for your replies.

 

Just throwing some ideas out there...

 

If the car was in gear 1,2 or R without foot on brake, would the car draw current or react differently to N or P?

 

What's the brake switch doing? Brake lights working?

 

 

Whether your foot is on the brake has no bearing on the start process, and if the box was in anything other than N or P you would get the exact symptoms I have now, turn the key and nothing happens. But, in answer to your question, I have no idea if the brake lights work, the brake lines are empty, and with the Aristo's electric/nitrogen set up I don't want to push air into places its hard to bleed out. But I assume they function just fine

 

 

Can remove the starter and send 12v across to see if it is actuating but the solenoid is a likely culprit.

 

I doubt it because theres no clicking of relays etc but Im certainly going to check it out.

[mellonman]

if you getting 12v at the starter , then its got to be a earth problem surely, i havent looked at the wring diagrams though,so it may be negativly switched so putting a earth on should make it spin but may not be the issue.

i think i remember something about that there is a selector for the gear box that has a solinoid for the park that would have to be engaged to let the car start not just the switch to say its in park something like that .

[Guest Roger NE]

if you getting 12v at the starter , then its got to be a earth problem surely

 

He later said he hasn't actually checked for voltages yet - but the starter Motor is permanently earthed through the engine. Both the starter AND the starter relay receive a +12V signal, the latter comes from the ignition switch via the Neutral Start Switch (and maybe via the Immobilser too)

 

If you want me to help you I need more information - what have you changed exactly since the car was last running ?

 

Answer these numbered questions :

 

1. Is it the same engine (and Starter Motor) . . but now with a different Automatic Transmission (from a Supra)?

 

2. Was the car an Automatic before this change? (and in particular, is the Engine, ECU and Loom all from an Automatic car?)

 

3. Have you modified the car's or engine's wiring in any way since the change?

 

4. What did the Alarm/Immobiliser do before these changes? In particular, when Armed, did it prevent the Starter Motor doing anything when you turned the key

 

5. Why do you first say 12V getting to Starter Relay, 12V getting to Starter . . . and then you say you haven't actually checked?! You really ought to measure these FIRST and tell us what you find.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Roger NE (see edit history)

[listy]

I'm a bit confused as to why everyone is ignoring Swampy's initial thought here

 

A Supra box, in an Aristo. I'd be comparing Supra and Aristo pin outs first and foremost. As if you have wired a Supra box like an Aristo and the N and P are different on the pins, then surely this is what would happen?

[Guest Roger NE]

That's why I've asked the questions . . .

 

But in my experience of Toyota Wiring, if it's the SAME connector, the connections are very likely to be the same.

 

And the Neutral Start function is very simple - it's just +12V that comes from the Ignition Switch in the START position that comes in on one pin (to the switch) and goes out again on another - via the footwell, and on to the Starter Relay coil.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Roger NE (see edit history)

[mellonman]

He hasn't actually checked for voltages yet -

 

in the first post he said he has got 12v to the starter ? i might of miss understood

 

from what your saying it is negativly swtch then , but as listy says if he has changed over bits he will need to go through the pin outs from both cars

[Guest Roger NE]

from what your saying it is negativly swtch then

 

No - NEITHER is negatively switched - read my posts

 

in the first post he said he has got 12v to the starter ?

 

Yes . . but I said: "Unplug the Spade Connector that goes to the Starter Solenoid . . . connect a meter between that and chassis and check that there is 12V when you turn the key to the Start position."

 

His reply: "Ill try it but I also doubt it."

Edited January 14, 2014 by Roger NE (see edit history)

[Swampy442]

He later said he hasn't actually checked for voltages yet -

 

I didn't say that, I said I checked for voltage at the starter (as its connected direct to the battery with a great big cable) and I checked for power at the start relay, I hadn't checked for power at the starter solenoid connector.

 

1) Same engine and starter motor

 

2) It was an auto and remains an auto, and yes just the Boostlogic auto box

 

3) No wiring alterations have taken place apart from renewing the coil pack plugs.

 

4) It locked and unlocked the doors, thats as much as i know, I never tested any other functions. But I do know the door locking and alarm functions work as advertised.

 

5) Read my first post in here, I didn't say that.

[Swampy442]

I'm a bit confused as to why everyone is ignoring Swampy's initial thought here

 

A Supra box, in an Aristo. I'd be comparing Supra and Aristo pin outs first and foremost. As if you have wired a Supra box like an Aristo and the N and P are different on the pins, then surely this is what would happen?

 

All the plugs connected up fine, which you would expect as its the same box. If it is that start switch thats cool because I have a known good Aristo one from my original box, I can stick that on.

[Chris Wilson]

I would check out the inhibitor switch on the side of the auto box. It stops the starter motor solenoid receiving energizing current save when in Park or Neutral. You can bypass it, but it could then start in gear and immediately move off. Not good if you have a remote start function, (though probably amusing for a bystander). Possibly illegal in these Draconian times...

[Swampy442]

Thats what Im referring to Chris. Ive found out how to check adjustment using the club's excellent workshop manuals section, if its all good Ill swap it for the one I have.

[Nodalmighty]

Have you checked the starter fuse (ST 7.5amp)?

 

Lyndon.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Nodalmighty (see edit history)

[Guest Roger NE]

I'm presuming you would have checked all the fuses before anything, right?

 

I would expect you to have +12V at the main Starter terminal, as it's a really thick cable straight from the Battery/Fusebox

 

But I guess you haven't checked whether you have +12V on the Solenoid spade terminal yet? (I would do that FIRST to rule out a problem with the Starter Motor, as it's a quick thing you can do without having to jack up and crawl under the car)

 

Presuming you have NO power there, I would unplug the lead to the Autobox, and just short out the two pins that go to the Neutral Start Switch TEMPORARILY - and then see if the engine cranks OK. (that is a BLACK wire that goes to pin 5 and a BLACK/WHITE wire that goes to pin 6)

 

If it DOES crank OK, then it's obviously a faulty switch in the Autobox (or its adjustment)

 

If it DOESN'T, then that switch is probably OK . . . you could have a faulty Starter Relay . . . or more likely a problem with your Alarm or the wiring to it. (the ground wire of the Starter Relay coil normally goes through the immobiliser to ground)

Edited January 14, 2014 by Roger NE (see edit history)

[Swampy442]

Have you checked the starter fuse (ST 7.5amp)?

 

Lyndon.

 

Yep checked all the fuses and relays mate.

 

I'm presuming you would have checked all the fuses before anything, right?

 

I would expect you to have +12V at the main Starter terminal, as it's a really thick cable straight from the Battery/Fusebox

 

But I guess you haven't checked whether you have +12V on the Solenoid spade terminal yet? (I would do that FIRST to rule out a problem with the Starter Motor, as it's a quick thing you can do without having to jack up and crawl under the car)

 

No not done it yet, will be going down tomorrow to check it out.

 

Thanks again for the replies.

[dangerous brain]

OK so devils advocate here. Dan the f*ckwit Turner told me he had "rewired" the auto box wiring when he installed the AEM. When Ryan tried to tune the car after it lost its map the auto map for a stock car didn't work. When he imposed a copy of Dans gearbox mapping with his own engine map it ran OK. Roll on a year later when the AEM toasted itself and I stuck a stock ECU in the car to get it going again the gearbox never quite worked right and then lunched itself within 1000 miles which is the condition you bought it in. Probably a red herring but I would be seriously be considering WTF that kn*b head did to the wiring as I saw him with various wires de-pinned from both the ECU and at the gearbox. Stick a 6 speed ECU in and see if it starts to discount that issue (you know the one I gave you with the car lol)

[Swampy442]

Id forgotten about that Bry... This could be more tricky than first thought. Ill try the basics first and see what happens.

[Tayfun.tugra]

Thanks for your replies.

 

 

 

 

Whether your foot is on the brake has no bearing on the start process, and if the box was in anything other than N or P you would get the exact symptoms I have now, turn the key and nothing happens. But, in answer to your question, I have no idea if the brake lights work, the brake lines are empty, and with the Aristo's electric/nitrogen set up I don't want to push air into places its hard to bleed out. But I assume they function just fine

 

 

I'm not sure if other Toyotas do it but on my Supra I need to depress the brake pedal to start the car regardless if its in P or N, maybe it was added for extra safety I'm not sure... one way to check the brake switch is to check it the brake lights work... but I guess this doesn't apply in this situation.

[LOGIE]

I'm not sure if other Toyotas do it but on my Supra I need to depress the brake pedal to start the car regardless if its in P or N, maybe it was added for extra safety I'm not sure... one way to check the brake switch is to check it the brake lights work... but I guess this doesn't apply in this situation.

 

Very strange. Mine starts without pressure on brake pedal

[TT Paul]

Very strange. Mine starts without pressure on brake pedal

 

same hear this is gonna be a long fix from reading the info