Dan_Turism0 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Would like to see results with a ported inlet manifold or a aftermarket inlet manifold. why? the americans have used the stock inlet manifold on builds of over 1000hp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 why? the americans have used the stock inlet manifold on builds of over 1000hp That doesn't mean they wouldn't be better off with something different. What if you were on the limit in terms of fuel, ignition timing, det, EGT's etc meaning no more boost or timing was available......then you can go back to less lazy tuning and look for all the losses in the system. Porting certain areas in the whole system and optimizing (for instance) plenum volume to suit your goals can then start to pay off. Same argument goes for a well gas flowed head.....more power-same boost, just by minimizing losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisLupus Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 It'll probably be ok if the boost is kept low but I would definitely advise getting it checked once fitted to make sure the afr's are ok and there is no knock. Hopefully with the Mk2 version the boost issues will be fixed and they will run 1 bar on wastegate pressure alone, if not a restrictor ring will have to be fitted to control boost. In an ideal world a mappable ecu would be the best solution of course, ideally something stand alone. Hi Paul, they won't work with a stock ECU. I have a similar set of Turbos and they definitely will get wrong AFR under boost with a stock ecu. Emanage runs them okayish, the best investment was the Syvecs Controlling them fully including Sequential control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vainio Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 why? the americans have used the stock inlet manifold on builds of over 1000hp Sorry. I didnt mean stock intake manifold... The exhaust manifold which is so restrictive. http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?673364-Flow-bench-results-for-ported-GTE-exhaust-manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Turism0 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Sorry. I didnt mean stock intake manifold... The exhaust manifold which is so restrictive. http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?673364-Flow-bench-results-for-ported-GTE-exhaust-manifold. ahh yeah the exhaust mani can cause restrictions but the intake is usually good for high hp, most people tend to replace them for looks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 So many good news I think I ll wait for those to be fully tested... And give my car a huge mod list.... I am planning new turbos but still haven't finish to install the RL Tractin Control lolll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 ahh yeah the exhaust mani can cause restrictions but the intake is usually good for high hp, most people tend to replace them for looks They do increase power though mate, we've seen 30bhp just by fitting a Greddy intake on a single turbo'd Supra, nothing else changed on the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Turism0 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 They do increase power though mate, we've seen 30bhp just by fitting a Greddy intake on a single turbo'd Supra, nothing else changed on the car. no i know they can increase power however i'd not exactly call the stock one a restriction as such Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Right chaps, sorry for the delay on getting this information on here, I've been so busy setting up our new branch in South Wales, just haven't had any spare time unfortunately! So basically this is where we currently are with the development of the billet hybrid turbos: Mk1 billet hybrids: The car was fitted with Whifbitz 264 cams, HKS Type R front mount intercooler, Asnu 800cc injectors with Whifbitz top feed fuel rail kit and a Syvecs ecu mapped by Ryan of course, so basically all the parts in place to produce good power. The first set we achieved 464bhp and just over 450lb/ft torque at 1.45 bar on the Dyno Dynamics at Surrey Rolling Road with Shell V-power. Running more boost just resulted in engine knock/detonation so we had to take ignition timing out and no extra power was gained. If the test car had an aftermarket inlet manifold fitted we might have gained another 20bhp or so perhaps. This isn't quite as much as we were hoping for, but still pretty good for hybrids, we don't see many go above a GENUINE 450bhp and I don't think its really possible on pump fuel with the standard manifold and pipework, putting E85/methanol in is a different story of course. We were also trying to cure the boost creeping issues you get with the Jap spec turbos which didn't quite work, with no restrictor ring they run at 0.9 bar creeping to 1.4 bar boost. With a decent ecu like the Syvecs you can run at 1.4 bar across the boost range though as you can adjust the wastegate duty to get around this problem. Mk2 billet hybrids: The Mk2 version will have the following changes: 1. A much larger wastegate fitted, 32mm or may be larger if it will fit in the housing, this hopefully should cure the boost creep to enable to be run with no restrictor ring. 2. The manifold will be receiving some heavy porting work this time, the Mk1 version only had the manifold "cleaned" up slightly. The ports on the standard manifold are tiny, smaller than the turbo itself so this must be a large restriction. 3. Different compressor wheel design, the Mk1 version spooled about the same as stock turbos which is pretty good seeing as they are much larger. The new wheel will make them spool even faster, hopefully faster than the standard jap spec turbos with any luck. The first Mk2 version is being fitted to a Supra TT next week, this particular car is only testing out the boost creeping issue as its still running standard ecu/injectors so we cant fully test them to see if they make any more bhp/torque. And I'm just doing a quote at the moment for another customer who wants to go with the latest version and that car will have Whifbitz 264 cams, Apexi Power FC so we can really test them out properly. So they are actually available to buy now, just depends if you want to wait until they are fully tested power wise or not. At the moment we are quoting them as producing around 460-470bhp. Any questions just ask. Thanks Paul ive got a few questions. 1, Why dont you fabricate a proper manifold? (ive seen many of your manifolds and they are a work of art iam sure it would be No problem for you to make one) 2, Wont the porting of the stock manifold make it esier to crack? i meen the manifold is soo restictive you would need to port it alot to get good gains. 3, did you messure exhaust backpresure during the dyno pulls? 4, Any EGT logs from the dynoruns Before detonation? my thoughts are that if somone is willing to put the Money down to buy this set of turbos and obviously do the other modification that needs to be done they would just put the extra cash in for a proper manifold. if you could get rid of the skyhigh egt iam sure you could add more boost to overcome some of the restriction in the pressure lines. to get past that magical 500bhp. it would be awsome and what a driving machine! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 ive got a few questions. 1, Why dont you fabricate a proper manifold? (ive seen many of your manifolds and they are a work of art iam sure it would be No problem for you to make one) 2, Wont the porting of the stock manifold make it esier to crack? i meen the manifold is soo restictive you would need to port it alot to get good gains. 3, did you messure exhaust backpresure during the dyno pulls? 4, Any EGT logs from the dynoruns Before detonation? my thoughts are that if somone is willing to put the Money down to buy this set of turbos and obviously do the other modification that needs to be done they would just put the extra cash in for a proper manifold. if you could get rid of the skyhigh egt iam sure you could add more boost to overcome some of the restriction in the pressure lines. to get past that magical 500bhp. it would be awsome and what a driving machine! Good luck! 1. The manifold is very hard to remake because of the size and shape unfortunately and would be much cheaper to modify the Toyota unit. 2. No, they are built like a tank 3. No 4. No, but we know its a heat/flow issue The MK2 version should be with us on Monday, more updates soon! Thanks Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavin.starr Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Keep the info coming paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Waiting for the mkii results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirky_123 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 any updates with the mk 2's its been a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Small update yes, we have the mk2 version running on a supra now. We've cured the boost creep issues now, the bigger wastegate is working well. They now give a baseline boost pressure of 1.1 bar with no restrictor ring. These have been fitted to a Supra TT pre VVTi running BPU, air fuel ratios are all ok so you can use these turbos without an ecu/fuel upgrade if needed. And then if you want to take advantage of them and turn the boost up at a later stage you can. They are currently spooling pretty much the same as the standard jap spec turbos which is pretty good considering they are much larger. The mk3 version are being built right now with a slightly different compressor wheel to aid spool up even more. These are being fitted to a Supra soon along with Whifbitz 264 cams, Syvecs, sard 800cc injectors, 3" Whifbitz decats, etc so we can really push them and see what they'll do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Great news ! Mk3 versions ? Cool ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrashcanman Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Small update yes, we have the mk2 version running on a supra now. We've cured the boost creep issues now, the bigger wastegate is working well. They now give a baseline boost pressure of 1.1 bar with no restrictor ring. These have been fitted to a Supra TT pre VVTi running BPU, air fuel ratios are all ok so you can use these turbos without an ecu/fuel upgrade if needed. And then if you want to take advantage of them and turn the boost up at a later stage you can. They are currently spooling pretty much the same as the standard jap spec turbos which is pretty good considering they are much larger. The mk3 version are being built right now with a slightly different compressor wheel to aid spool up even more. These are being fitted to a Supra soon along with Whifbitz 264 cams, Syvecs, sard 800cc injectors, 3" Whifbitz decats, etc so we can really push them and see what they'll do. Nice! Any idea on price Paul? And are they on an exchange basis? Will you need a built engine to push them to highest boost or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Price should be around £1800 including vat on an exchange basis, that's what we are aiming at. You don't need a built engine no, the standard engine will take around 700bhp if it's in good working condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrashcanman Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 2 bar will require a forged engine build though don't forget and until someone fancies testing them at that boost level we won't know what will happen with egt's either. 1.6 bar should be fine though, we will find out for sure on the test car soon. Price should be around £1800 including vat on an exchange basis, that's what we are aiming at. You don't need a built engine no, the standard engine will take around 700bhp if it's in good working condition. Sorry didn't make myself completely clear mate, assume you would if pushing to 2bar? If the turbos go that high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Supes Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Surely, it's all in the tune; uprated internals are not a substitute for poor fuelling. Interested in seeing how these turns out. Could be a great option forward for those already at bpu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Sorry didn't make myself completely clear mate, assume you would if pushing to 2bar? If the turbos go that high? The turbos will go to 2 bar yes but you'll need to run ethanol/methanol, race fuel otherwise you won't make any extra power. The manifold/pipework just isn't up to it and to completely redesign it all would be very costly. We normally limit standard engines to 1.7 bar boost to be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid_Flake Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Exciting thread to follow! Short question, is the back-pressure vs inlet-pressure ratio going to be measured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supraGZaerotop Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 so as a bolt on replacement on a bpu spec car do you know what sort of power they produce, or even bolted straight to a stock TT what will the power be, interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 so as a bolt on replacement on a bpu spec car do you know what sort of power they produce, or even bolted straight to a stock TT what will the power be, interesting Not until someone puts a car on a dyno and does a before and after I'm afraid not sorry. To make the most of these though you really need to be fitting an ecu and injectors so you can turn the boost up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Supes Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Sounds very promising. Definitely going to need to sort some better traction soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrashcanman Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 The turbos will go to 2 bar yes but you'll need to run ethanol/methanol, race fuel otherwise you won't make any extra power. The manifold/pipework just isn't up to it and to completely redesign it all would be very costly. We normally limit standard engines to 1.7 bar boost to be safe. Interesting cheers for the reply Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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