rob_sri Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Hi guys, quick question.. I am after some bucket lifters and shims as after my head was removed they were misplaced by the previous owner.. if I were to get hold of some more are they specific between inlet/exhaust or are they 'universal' ? Thanks Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Buckets are universal but the shims need to be bought to size. Best bet is to try and get your hands on a job lot and then do your best to re-shim the head. PITA of a job you are in for though mate, I don't envy you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_sri Posted November 2, 2013 Author Share Posted November 2, 2013 Ooooh balls..! I have no idea how to do that if Someone who had a spare set of shims/buckets fitted in their head and they were willing to label them 1-12e and 1-12i would that be okay to use in my head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Ooooh balls..! I have no idea how to do that if Someone who had a spare set of shims/buckets fitted in their head and they were willing to label them 1-12e and 1-12i would that be okay to use in my head? Unfortunately not. The whole reason for different size shims is to allow for the compound tolerance of the cam journals and the bearing journals, along with other bits and bobs. Basically this makes every single head different and they all need to be matched accordingly. Through time your cam lobes will wear, as will other aspects of your engine, and this leads to the head needing re-shimmed to keep it tight. Most people don't bother with this, as wear tends to take a long time and be relatively minimal. Starting from scratch though, you need to work to your tolerances as if you just threw in some shims you could have them far too tight which would break things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Check out day 13, this is where I did something similar to what you are going to have to do. Fortunately I already had half an idea, as all my shims were numbered. http://www.mkivsuprastar.com/index.php?view=singleinstall&page=2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich.2211 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 The shims come in different thicknesses to ensure the correct clearance between them and the lobes of the cam. You will have to fit the cams and buckets and then play the trial and error game with the shims until you get the correct clearances. That's my understanding of it anyway. Time to get yourself some feeler gauges Edit - Scott explained this much better than myself a few posts before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_sri Posted November 2, 2013 Author Share Posted November 2, 2013 thanks for the replies... ahh i see.. well i suppose it makes sense.. well explained I had a feeling you would say that.. would I be correct in thinking that the buckets are going to be specific to the 2jz and the shims can be bought in different thicknesses and are universal? Valve stem seals and lapping the valves I think I can deal with.. this looks a bit past me if im honest.. I dont want to risk incorrectly shimming it and wearing stuff out/screw it entirely.. would my best call be get some second hand buckets.. do the valve stem seals and lap the valves.. take the head and buckets to somewhere like autosprint and get them to fit the cams and reshim it properly for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 If you have the head off I'd give it a go yourself to be honest. Buckets and shims are 2JZ rather than universal, they might be available for other cars etc but I wouldn't risk it. You need a micrometer and a set of feeler gauges to do the actual checking. The process is fairly straight forward, you just need to be meticulous with your sizing and stay completely logical in your approach. Firstly you need 24 buckets and 24 shims. I don't think there is a difference between intake and exhaust, but don't quote me on it as it's been a while. Put the buckets in place, number the shims E1 to E12 and I1 to I12 then put them into place. Put the cams into place then torque the caps on. The caps are also numbered and need to be put in correctly. There is also a torquing sequence that needs to be adhered to. Once you have done the above you simply check the gap between the lower half of the cam lobe and the shim. I can't remember the gap for stock cams but it's in the manual. Write down the current gap for each shim. For example.... Let's say you check Exhaust shim 1 and find it to be 0.006" (or the metric equivalent depending how you work). Lets say the limit for the gap is 0.010 to 0.012". This means that the shim you currently have in place is 0.006" too thick..... write this down. Do this for all 24 valves. Remove the cams, using the proper sequence, then take out the shims one at a time. Measure each one with a micrometer and write down the size of each one. I can't remember what the size of these things are but let's say this one was 0.110". From the above we know that the shim required for that position has to be 0.006" less than what's currently in there. We know the thickness of the shim that was in there is 0.110". From that we now know that the required shim is 0.104" Write this down for each valve. Once you have finished you know what sizes are required for each valve. Sort them all out and see what you need to buy. You'll never need to buy an entire set, often it'll just be a few, as the assortment from a batch is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Just remembered....... Here's one I made earlier http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?254960-How-to-Re-Shim-Cams&highlight=shim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_sri Posted November 2, 2013 Author Share Posted November 2, 2013 thats perfect scott, really appreciate the detailed response!! so my next problem is time/cost.. not sure how much a set of buckets and shims would cost in comparison to getting another second hand complete head and not have to worry about re shimming it..! it would be a shame as my head at the moment only has 38k on it the theory sounds good and I like the way you explained it.. makes sense.. methodical..with the right tools I think I could do that but where would i get different sized shims from? someone mentioned in another thread that buckets from toyota were almost £20 each and im guessing thats without shims!!!! sorry for all the questions.. as you can probably tell, im new to all this ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 thats perfect scott, really appreciate the detailed response!! so my next problem is time/cost.. not sure how much a set of buckets and shims would cost in comparison to getting another second hand complete head and not have to worry about re shimming it..! it would be a shame as my head at the moment only has 38k on it the theory sounds good and I like the way you explained it.. makes sense.. methodical..with the right tools I think I could do that but where would i get different sized shims from? someone mentioned in another thread that buckets from toyota were almost £20 each and im guessing thats without shims!!!! sorry for all the questions.. as you can probably tell, im new to all this ! A known good head with known good cams and caps is better than the unknown. For the buckets and the shims I would just buy a set from someone. Or even a complete head.... they're not expensive anyway. Once you have that you can do the checks I have said and you will know what you need/what you are missing. From there you can either buy them from toyota (£10 each) or you can ask on a wanted thread. I tried the latter but it didn't work so I ended up getting what I needed from Toyota. I'm not sure where they are but I still have some spare shims somewhere. If I find them I'll give you a shout. If you check out the tutorial I wrote in the link it gives you a LOT more detail on the process as that's when I was actually doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_sri Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 thats sound advice thank you! this head I have at the moment has just been freshly skimmed and with 38k on it would be a crime to bin it.. I think I will do just that.. try and get some buckets + shims.. failing that buy another head pinch the bits out and buy the rest from toyota.. thanks again that tutorial is top notch too very detailed im guessing your tolerances were more stringent due to being aftermarket cams too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 thats sound advice thank you! this head I have at the moment has just been freshly skimmed and with 38k on it would be a crime to bin it.. I think I will do just that.. try and get some buckets + shims.. failing that buy another head pinch the bits out and buy the rest from toyota.. thanks again that tutorial is top notch too very detailed im guessing your tolerances were more stringent due to being aftermarket cams too? The quoted tolerances are the stock tolerances for the Supra. I was just more strict on the side I was aiming towards due to the cams being aftermarket. The guide basically covers stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_sri Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 Don't blame you nice work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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