scott87 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Information overload. im just glad im not attempting the install today after that spaz moment...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 During searches for many things that weren't there until I worked them out, I've learned how to find many more things I wasn't looking for. Here's the 2JZA80 pin-outs. http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/0/017/017-30-1100.pdf Although that is the pinout for the 30-1100 my "instructions" say model 30-1910 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Although that is the pinout for the 30-1100 my "instructions" say model 30-1910 The AEM pdf FIC installation manual tells you what the wires are, the pin-outs for the AEM standalone are the same as for stock ECU and are shown towards the end of the 30-1100 pdf which tells you where to stick-em. In these 2 documents you have all the information you need straight from the 'horses mouth', print the relevant pages and it'll make a lot more sense. Edited October 29, 2013 by David P (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 mello is correct the FIC does not work with MAF sensors though im pretty sure you wont have any. Printing off the pages always helps to lay them out in front of you, or on the car floor when your wiring up!! Surprised youve gone FIC and not the tried EMU route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 mello is correct the FIC does not work with MAF sensors though im pretty sure you wont have any. Printing off the pages always helps to lay them out in front of you, or on the car floor when your wiring up!! Surprised youve gone FIC and not the tried EMU route. No i dont have a maf sensor on my car. To be honest i read that they were good and i got it at an absolute steal of a price Im looking at the 2 together now and trying to make heads or tails of it. Its tricky but i think i get what is going on. I will print the files then i am going to draw a wiring diagram or link what wire i think from the loom i have to where i think it should go then post up and ask for advice or opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Also are all the sensors on the Supra 'mag' type sensors as if they are that means i can eliminate the hall sensor wires from the aem loom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Why doesn't the fic work with MAF? the install seems to say it can handle MAF or MAP. From what I can see the fic uses the crank sensor to control ignition timing retard globally by delaying the crank angle signal to the ECU. Its pretty basic really, I would favor the EMU any day, however having said that if you got the fic cheap its will be fine, there is one feature of the fic I do like, and that the ability to adjust the lambda feedback signal. Edited October 29, 2013 by Tricky-Ricky (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Why doesn't the fic work with MAF? the install seems to say it can handle MAF or MAP. From what I can see the fic uses the crank sensor to control ignition timing retard globally by delaying the crank angle signal to the ECU. Its pretty basic really, I would favor the EMU any day, however having said that if you got the fic cheap its will be fine, there is one feature of the fic I do like, and that the ability to adjust the lambda feedback signal. Thanks for the input, just trying to work out the wiring now. Please await questions!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Right here we go then..... I have named the following 2 images so that the following makes sense: From the following i believe that i do not need to use the following: 18 - aux input - brown 7 - hall crank input - green 14 - hall crank out - green 3 - hall cam out - yellow 13 - user switch input - white 2 - hall cam out - yellow Now also from this bank the following has been done: 19 - mag crank positive input Has a resistor connected to 8 - mag crank negative input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 The the following not needed from this bank: 8 - hall style cam 1 sensor input - yellow 6 - analog A in - grey 16 - switch 12vdc output - white 4 - hall cam 2 sensor in - yellow 15 - maf signal out - black 3 - analog a out - grey 14 - maf signal input - blue 2 - analog B in - Orange 13 - banks 1 oxygen 1 sensor modifier - pink 1 - bank 2 oxygen sensor modifier - pink Then the following has been done: 10 - mag cam 1 sensor negative input resistor between 9 - mag cam 1 sensor positive input AND ALSO 5 - mag cam 2 sensor positive input resistor between 7 - mag cam 2 sensor negative input IF someone can shed some light to whether the resistors are still needed between these and i have or am going to delete the correct cables that would be great. It is just then a case of matching the remaining cables to the relevant cables on my ecu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Why doesn't the fic work with MAF? the install seems to say it can handle MAF or MAP. From what I can see the fic uses the crank sensor to control ignition timing retard globally by delaying the crank angle signal to the ECU. Its pretty basic really, I would favor the EMU any day, however having said that if you got the fic cheap its will be fine, there is one feature of the fic I do like, and that the ability to adjust the lambda feedback signal. ricky it does work with most maf sensors but not the vortex type ( i think thats what they was called or similar) Sorry to say the FIC is cheap for a season,in my experiance the fic has alot of messing around to get the bugs out , and is slated on there own forum. but does work as i have one myself but they are alot more easier intergrated to the GTE. i expect the first running problem you will have is A, A cut in power when going from part to full throttle between 3000rpm and 4000rpm B, stalling when engine is pulling vacuum say when pulling up to a set of lights these problems are related to firmware q104,q110,q107 each of these firm ware does a fuel statergy you will have to try it on each to see which best suits you car mine best runs on the q104. Problem C, Swinging afrs when on cruise . This is down to injectors some are linera and some are not so you need to spend some time getting your injector responce time right and your fuel trim so that your stock ecu doesnt over compensate by not knowing the correcdt responce time thus adding too little or too much fuel on each injector pulse . Problem D, long cranking when warm . dont know why but seems alot of piggyback ecu's have a sim ilar problem i think this is due to how it retards the timing by delaying the signal to the ecu just dont like it when tha cars hot and left for 5 -10 minutes . Problem E, cam and crank wire sometimes have to have a 2 0hms resistor across them to not give a missfire. Thes fic is better then the safc as it has timing ability and o2 feedback , but if i was doing it again i would go for a better ecu but i hope my pointers help you out as , it cost me a wedge of cash 3 mappers and lot of reading to over come the issues , best get on the link i provided and read all the N/A stuff as i didnt the search feature is great on that forum though thats one good thing but now its running i cant fault it really it made 524bhp & 510 ftlb at 1.3 bar with a t67 turbo which has been running it some years now . Edited October 29, 2013 by mellonman (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Im running standard injectors so i wouldn't imagine that i will have a problem there. Im also going to be running very small amount of boost so the timing wont have to be altered massively i wouldn't have thought. would this not help problem D? Problem E - Check my above post about which wires have had resistors placed between them already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Close but the 2k ohm resistor goes with one side connected to Crank MAGI(+) and the other side connected to Crank MAGI(-). Another 2k resistor installed with one side connected to Cam1 MAGI(+) and the other side connected to Cam1 MAGI(-). but even then this can also cause some issues with the stock ecu not seeing the signals or a short in the circuit, also you would think that becuse your not changing the injectors you wouldnt have a problem but alot of people still do as its the FIC that needs the perticular type of injectors , there have been hundreds of people on the aem forum with this exact issue they dont change anything plug in the fic car dont work put the bypass cable in car works fine . not much timing or alot of timing doesnt matter you still have to get it to work so it can actually retard the timing , PLEASE,PLEAE trust me when i say spend tonight reading and searching the AEM fic forum for anything to do with your install or engine , it will be the best thing you will do if you carry on to fit the fic , why struggle your self when hundreds of others have already been through it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Close but the 2k ohm resistor goes with one side connected to Crank MAGI(+) and the other side connected to Crank MAGI(-). Another 2k resistor installed with one side connected to Cam1 MAGI(+) and the other side connected to Cam1 MAGI(-). but even then this can also cause some issues with the stock ecu not seeing the signals or a short in the circuit, also you would think that becuse your not changing the injectors you wouldnt have a problem but alot of people still do as its the FIC that needs the perticular type of injectors , there have been hundreds of people on the aem forum with this exact issue they dont change anything plug in the fic car dont work put the bypass cable in car works fine . not much timing or alot of timing doesnt matter you still have to get it to work so it can actually retard the timing , PLEASE,PLEAE trust me when i say spend tonight reading and searching the AEM fic forum for anything to do with your install or engine , it will be the best thing you will do if you carry on to fit the fic , why struggle your self when hundreds of others have already been through it Thanks. Well im just wondering what the resistors that are currently on the loom are for then as this came off a supra working with the current setup of resistors. In terms of which cables i have said i dont need am i correct? I can't find anything about the fic not working with stock injectors, only people that have increased injector size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 i have seen it on there mate dont worry about that lol. as for the resistors some cars need them, some dont ,some need one ,some need none ,some need bigger resistor ,some need smaller owh the joys of setting up the FIC mine dont need them and maybe the car that the fic come from may not of needed it and was trying to over come the firmware issues like did with trying the resistors , maybe they got it wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 i have seen it on there mate dont worry about that lol. as for the resistors some cars need them, some dont ,some need one ,some need none ,some need bigger resistor ,some need smaller owh the joys of setting up the FIC mine dont need them and maybe the car that the fic come from may not of needed it and was trying to over come the firmware issues like did with trying the resistors , maybe they got it wrong? all i know is is it was on a supra and was working. So my bed would be to do completely normal install no resistors and go from there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 all i know is is it was on a supra and was working. So my bed would be to do completely normal install no resistors and go from there? yes start from scratch forget everything they have already done , but when you first connect your laptop to the fic , export from FIC to get the map of the fic and 'SAVE AS' so you still have the map that was from the first set up, then export TO fic with and new on to start your map, not that this will help you as the map maybe for something completely different, but it may help with the other setting of sensor feed backs what fic do you have 6 or 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Um how do i find out which version it is? Also like i said earlier a lot of the cables arent needed. like the hal sensor ones and the other ones i have mentioned or at least thats what i can tell. And im sure the o2 ones arent either as they are for modifying and from what i could read in the manual that wasn't relevant to me but maybe im wrong.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) The big problem with going FI on an N/A car is that the ECU runs lambda feedback for the majority of the RMP/load range only coming out of closed loop at the very top end of the scale, so the lambda feedback adjustment on the fic is IMOP very useful for fooling the std ECU into thinking that its still seeing the expected feedback signal rather than continually fighting the much richer map that you will need in the fic to run a turbo. fic 6 fic 8 Edited October 29, 2013 by Tricky-Ricky (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 The big problem with going FI on an N/A car is that the ECU runs lambda feedback for the majority of the RMP/load range only coming out of closed loop at the very top end of the scale, so the lambda feedback adjustment on the fic is IMOP very useful for fooling the std ECU into thinking that its still seeing the expected feedback signal rather than continually fighting the much richer map that you will need in the fic to run a turbo. fic 6 https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0e2VpCFirfRpw3aRw112YbGjh3JgiNiOPjesedIc_b-hLic5kmg fic 8 https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUYzFkaoIzqnkAo8dLqUYPyxCLPb1-d4HhSHqOfVW6N17ocDtP4A I have the fi6. Still searching for info on how to fit it and what other peoples experiences are with it. It does go into a lot of information about being able to modify the o2 sensor readings rather than let the stock ecu use them, i think thats what it meant anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 one problem is with the early supra its obd1 not obd2 which makes for hard o2 tuning as you dont know the fuel trims and in time the stock ecu will trim them back and your map will be no good , there is a table for toyota/scion in the installtion notes ,that should put you close to it though,also the tutorial videos are great help when mapping for this feature . but thats once its in and retarding timing (which is the hard part im lead to believe ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php/topic,23506.msg156010.html#msg156010 just incase this may help http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php/topic,21377.msg115646.html#msg115646 Edited October 29, 2013 by mellonman (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php/topic,23506.msg156010.html#msg156010 just incase this may help http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php/topic,21377.msg115646.html#msg115646 Found those 2 already thanks. Spoke to pete from Thor and he assures me the fic6 is spot on and works very well with the 2jzge both when na and single turbo. They have offered to fir it and map it for me for a reasonable price however it would double my build cost. So am still going to look for a work around as of yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 one problem is with the early supra its obd1 not obd2 which makes for hard o2 tuning as you dont know the fuel trims and in time the stock ecu will trim them back and your map will be no good , ) How does the OBD affect the O2 feedback then? its a straight voltage signal, thats the point of being able to skew the O2 feedback it makes the ECU see the expected O2 switch point as per normal, which allows you to run a richer AFR and the ECU is non the wiser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 My faith has been restored by Thor just need to work out a way to make things more cost effective and tie in with my build as i wanted to be able to fit the ecu first, use the car with the ecu running changing nothing. Do my turbo build at a unit where i can fab the downpipe, drive the car off boost to the mapper and then unplug the looped off ecu and map away. Great plan in theory but clearly is flawed now...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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