MaveriK Posted August 23, 2005 Author Share Posted August 23, 2005 Maybe i should charge you all for giving you the vehical to voice your opinions. Will help alot when handing over the beer tokens for the work that will have to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 not being funny but the only way you get a really noticeable surge when no. 2 comes online is if you have your foot planted to the floor, if you are mid corner with your foot planted in a 300+ hp rwd car you are asking for trouble... Agreed, and its only really a problem in the wet weather or dry when you've got a lot of lock on your wheel. My issue was this rev / power issue. Imagine you're holiding your speed around a corner, start to power out of it (maybe around 200bhp that car is currently putting out at a particular rev, then you start accelerating, single tubbie comes online and whoosh 500bhp kicking your ass. Thats not drivable on a track unless you like chewing up your rear tyres or drifting everywhere. Fine in a straight line 1/4 mile etc Its a little like having a car with masses of torque, where the throttle response is instant and it can be a real bitch to take the corners if you want to plant it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 start to power out of it (maybe around 200bhp that car is currently putting out at a particular rev, then you start accelerating, single tubbie comes online and whoosh 500bhp kicking your ass. it's not like a lightswitch Its a little like having a car with masses of torque, where the throttle response is instant and it can be a real bitch to take the corners if you want to plant it. use the throttle, it has more than off and planted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 My issue was this rev / power issue. Imagine you're holiding your speed around a corner, start to power out of it (maybe around 200bhp that car is currently putting out at a particular rev, then you start accelerating, single tubbie comes online and whoosh 500bhp kicking your ass. Thats not drivable on a track unless you like chewing up your rear tyres or drifting everywhere. Fine in a straight line 1/4 mile etc This is demonstrated quite well when kiesa drives that single turbo supra the video was floating around here a couple of weeks ago. Maverick what was your budget, i looked through the thread and couldn't see a mention of it?? Another good thread by the way guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Yeah exactly, but that was a T88 and im sure he was driving more for speed/display than for lap times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Christ, Nick Kiesa's car is another matter entirely, I mean yes, it's an engineering marvel but talk about un-bloody-drivable Lighting up the wheels every time boost comes on at something like 120mph isn't my idea of a road weapon... Maverick - I'm an ex-hybrid owner with a single, and I've said in this thread enough times that I like both setups for different reasons, so don't tar us all with the same brush Anyway, in my opinion hybrids are viable, and less £s to do a proper job than a single conversion, and will give you more power than stock. If you can afford the extra money to go single then do it, if not, don't What you need is a ride in both types... -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 This is demonstrated quite well when kiesa drives that single turbo supra the video was floating around here a couple of weeks ago. Maverick what was your budget, i looked through the thread and couldn't see a mention of it?? Another good thread by the way guys. lol - a 900hp turbo....thought we were talking about budget 57's to 61's to compare against hybrids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Would it be possible for one of the single turbo manual owners to log some times of in gear acceleration e.g. 30 - 50, 40-60 etc I am tempted by the single route, i just have no idea how the car drives through these benchmarks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 No, its the same issue, his is just an extreme example obviously When you say things like full power by x revs, just makes me think it can come online very quickly if its sooo low down, whereas a sequential twin setup is more progressive using more of the revs?! Ya get meh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 No, its the same issue, his is just an extreme example obviously When you say things like full power by x revs, just makes me think it can come online very quickly if its sooo low down, whereas a sequential twin setup is more progressive using more of the revs?! Ya get meh It will start making boost long before it makes full boost. My car will be in possitive boost by say 1500 rpm but not make full boost to circa 3000 rpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 So will anyone let us all drive their 6 spd single so we can see for ourselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Terry's car is the Vortex demo car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Terry's car is the Vortex demo car... in ur dreams.... I'll take anyone out in her, but as for driving themselves.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 So will anyone let us all drive their 6 spd single so we can see for ourselves?Pffft, you can't even keep your stock turbo'd car on the road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 in ur dreams.... I'll take anyone out in her, but as for driving themselves.... I wasn't thinking for a second that you'd let someone else drive her!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Pffft, you can't even keep your stock turbo'd car on the road! Aah, scandalous!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted August 23, 2005 Author Share Posted August 23, 2005 where is their sence of adventure???? I'll be careful, honest guv! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 You can't say how long it takes a turbo to spin up unless you specify a gear Booting it at 1500rpm in 6th I won't boost until, hmmm, doomsday I'll see what I can do re drivability logs. I've actually got some funky graphs that I did for some of Digsy's calculations, gives us the boost threshold in each gear. I know that WOT in 3rd gives me something like 0.75s per 10mph -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 This is the issue. You are constantly bad mouthing singles. AFAIK you have never owned one, or ever fitted one, so your opinion is hardly subjective No Terry my opinion is objective! Single conversions are not simple and not easily achieved Many people have too many problems with them after fitting - with internals, mapping and fuelling issues, I really wish that they would work well - I just loved Ian's graphs - they look the business - and gained by much sweat and tears I understand (figuratively - in case quoted literally!) Your car too - but can you say it has not been achieved without much work that the average Jo Public could not afford to go through...? The hybrids you had before are fitted to two cars (one of which my old one)and are still running well - I now use Turbo Dynamics who really know their stuff and are beyond reproach Cruise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Oh good grief....I thought everyone was on the same page now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Many people have too many problems with them after fitting - with internals, mapping and fuelling issues, I really wish that they would work well - I just loved Ian's graphs - they look the business - and gained by much sweat and tears I understand (figuratively - in case quoted literally!) Your car too - but can you say it has not been achieved without much work that the average Jo Public could not afford to go through...? Cruise... Yes Ian's car is down to hard work, but a properly set up car. This would be no different to an e-manage on any other car, he has his head around it. It also proves what can be achieved with an intelligent approach. (stock internals BTW no problem with his rings ) My car has been very straight forward (( Stock Rings BTW ). R&D does that for you. Instead of messing with other peoples pride and joy, we thought we'd mess with ours so we can "objectively" say what does and doesnt work rather than guess. This way we can help them reduce the pitfalls. If they choose another path along the way that really can not be attributed to us or the single turbo. Most issue are management related or misguidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerotop Dave Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 By the way Maverik... http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/cgi-bin/iB/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=4;t=3552 Cheap enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnK Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I would just like to add..... Ive had my single for 4 months now, and I did it on a very tight budget, yes I have done all the work myself and yes I Have had a few teething troubles. But I would go down the same road again tomorrow if I had to. There is no problem I have had that hasnt been solved very easily with a phone call to the supplier or using the wealth of knoledge on here. I also now know a lot more about my car. I am not making the big power figures some are but when funds allow the potential is there for far more power. I class the budget kit as a stepping stone which can be upgraded further at a later date for realitivly little cost, something that is impossible with hybrids. Also, dont be fooled by all this "stage 3" shit that is floated around. What is stage 3 anyway, and how does that compare to any other tuners stage 3 or 2 or anything else for that matter, "stage" is just a max power label. Also from what I have seen of hybrids, EGT's can become a problem, all that heat isnt good for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I think SecondJump has had a fairly easy time of it He got some very good results at TOTB and nowt went wrong, and his install went smoothly and the mapping went OK too. This is because Terry and myself have sorta pushed the boundaries a bit - yeah, there are going to be hiccups on the way! The E-manage took some learning , the BL kit took some fettling (I ordered mine with Terry's help before Vortex was created, I think it was about the second or third kit in the country?), and issues with coil packs weren't that widely known about at this point, etc etc.. No, I wouldn't expect Joe Punter to have to do the level of research I did, or the amount of hands-on product testing Terry has, or learn the ins and outs of the E-manage and how to fight the stock sequential map with it! But all the pain we have been through doing this has translated into Dave getting everything he needed in one hit, with no gotchas or missed items, it all fit, and it all works together. Of course, that's only the BL turbo kit, other kits may vary, but you see what I mean - there is a single turbo upgrade path that actually works and is almost turnkey. Which has gotta be a good thing for Joe Punter Gavin L's SP kit was installed by Leon and he wasn't complaining either, so there is another. I just wish I'd know that a single pump could run 600+bhp before I specced out a bonkers twin pump system Cost me a few hundred that did, still it's all nice shiny anodised stuff, look impressive -Ian PS thanks for the compliment Paul, there was indeed plenty of sweat, but I don't do tears, I do fuming and rage instead Closest I've been to tears was doing a stock-based turbo swap lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I think Mav is going to have to have a ride/drive in two cars, one with hybrids, and one with a 'small' single, but both have the same supporting mods, and both have the same tranny. It's the only way. TDi did a HKS sequential car btw. I tried to ask how much it cost, but I can't post on the 'other' site, no matter how many times I join up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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