Guest slow dog Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 rehashed? not what i have seen there very good units and the ones that i have fitted have all pushed over the 400bhp mark without a fault ? so i really dont think there rehashed ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 rehashed? not what i have seen there very good units and the ones that i have fitted have all pushed over the 400bhp mark without a fault ? so i really dont think there rehashed ? So do they reuse any parts? like I said, they have there place. Enjoy, will speak later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slow dog Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 do your single kits re use parts? erm yeh and same as a hybrid the inners are removed and replced with new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 do your single kits re use parts? erm yeh and same as a hybrid the inners are removed and replced with new Just to clarify ..what re-used parts ? Hybrids use stock manifold ..so does Budget kit so that's not re-using thats keeping parts, from there on its all new whereas hybrids are rebuilt Turbos! I also think Hybrids have their place in the car world "if the shoe fits" ..Just trying to clear up a few miss truths with the single route ...both have their hurdles to get over and it all depends on the individual on what he/she wants from the car and how much they want to spend to get value per ££. And i think this has been the point all along ..State FACTS not hearsay or Myths like (rings, idle ect ect )..and let the individual choose whats best for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 at least you don't get a sudden surge from a second turbo halfway round a corner I think this is something that all stock owners have to appreciate when driving hard, a negative for the stock supra! Having to drive longer into that bend, until it opens up and then pushing on. It sounds like, since the single equipped cars power is linear, then you can naturally progress through the corner rather than having to hold power/revs before the transitional period, mid bend, before planting it. So, single cars are quicker through the bends as they don't have to think about this "stock" problem we have. (I could be talking cr@p but, this is how it reads to me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 do your single kits re use parts? erm yeh and same as a hybrid the inners are removed and replced with new So the big singles are simply stock turbos with the inside removed and replaced with new?! wtf? has someone hijacked your account again?! Seems to me that some people like hybrids better because there is more margin for error - smaller injectors size increase, if at all = minimal mapping required with not much accuracy needed. Less chance of lunching and already-shagged engine as well due to lower power outputs. Gah. Any upgrade done half baked is going to be shite. "You pay cheap, you pay twice" I believe is the maxim of some here Could we concentrate on the *real* pros and cons of single vs hybrids? The install issues, the supporting mods issues, the overall cost vs benefits, and the change in driving experience - even the insurance side of things. What isn't useful is saying that a single turbo install done with no planning, supporting mods, or dare I say it competence means that all single turbo installs are junk! Ridiculous. Apply that to suspension, brakes, clutch, etc -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I need someone to let me drive their 6 spd single car then to convince me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 A couple of years ago if your old blowers went bang then the answer was 'GO FOR HYBRIDS'. Cost was the main factor along with the "steel internals makes a stronger setup" and so on. Now its clear its a lot more difficult to answer. People have played and played with the standard blowers. If you've only got 'repair' money available then just go and get some standard refurbished ones. If on the other hand you are like many people in this car club and will allways be wanting to 'Modify' your car, then dig deep, stump up the Xtra lolly and GO SINGLE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSteve Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Whats the problem with re-using tubby shells? It's the inside you WANT replaced. Ex-hybrid user and swear by em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I think this is something that all stock owners have to appreciate when driving hard, a negative for the stock supra! Having to drive longer into that bend, until it opens up and then pushing on. It sounds like, since the single equipped cars power is linear, then you can naturally progress through the corner rather than having to hold power/revs before the transitional period, mid bend, before planting it. So, single cars are quicker through the bends as they don't have to think about this "stock" problem we have. (I could be talking cr@p but, this is how it reads to me) I think I see what you are saying The sequential system you've gotta be ready at 4000rpm to lift a lot of throttle, anticipating the sudden rush of turbo 2. With a single, you feel the surge of power and lift in response, rather than in anticipation. And you have to lift less - you can keep accelerating holding say 0.5bar of boost and progressively wind in more power as the corners straightens out. Yeah, it's kinda like that Just don't exit the corner at 2500rpm in 6th lol you'll be there all day -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Ian, assuem Slowdog was referring to the budget kit which keeps the stock manifold. Whats the problem with re-using tubby shells? It's the inside you WANT replaced. Ex-hybrid user and swear by em Nothing, they absolutely have their place, just dont offer great Value for Money IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attilauk Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 not being funny but the only way you get a really noticeable surge when no. 2 comes online is if you have your foot planted to the floor, if you are mid corner with your foot planted in a 300+ hp rwd car you are asking for trouble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Whats the problem with re-using tubby shells? It's the inside you WANT replaced. Ex-hybrid user and swear by em Nowt wrong with that if the housings are OK. There was a spate a while back of hybrids going bang with shockingly low mileage on them, turns out it was all from the same supplier. They weren't all that when they worked anyway. I think Heckler's car is on Envy hybrids, they seem OK to me, deffo more power than a stocker based car and they had some wastegate work done too to help stop boost creep My old hybrids constructor remain a mystery Those are the two I've experienced, but a T61 is another level up from the hybrids. But more complex to map, stand a chance of needing new coil packs, I'd go for 650cc injectors instead of 550's, etc etc. You can't get something for nothing -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 not being funny but the only way you get a really noticeable surge when no. 2 comes online is if you have your foot planted to the floor, if you are mid corner with your foot planted in a 300+ hp rwd car you are asking for trouble... Stick it in 6th and use 40% throttle, at 112mph you'll get a large surge in power without moving your foot. Turbos work primarily on engine load, not throttle position. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Haven't had a rapid-fire thread like this for ages I really should do some work soon! -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 A good way of putting it : response/anticipation I sometimes go around corners where I *think* I could go faster but, anticipation of what's coming next, stops me from pushing on.....so I hold revs/power until it opens up more. Maybe it's just my confidence level and needing to know the limits of the car better. - Bovingdon helped with this Or I really can't go any faster (traction) and am blaming the car! (Because of this transition issue) where, if I had a single, traction would be the next issue on this bend and so, the stock 'transition' issue was never a problem in the first place AND can only take this corner at the current speed anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Haven't had a rapid-fire thread like this for ages I really should do some work soon! I know what you mean, I saw the thread start, went to get some And by the time I'd got comfortable 8 pages had passed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale B Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Well, this little lot has certainly help poor Maverik choose a route NOT. I bet he's more confused than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attilauk Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Stick it in 6th and use 40% throttle, at 112mph you'll get a large surge in power without moving your foot. Turbos work primarily on engine load, not throttle position. -Ian Hmmm cant say i've noticed that before, i think some experimentation is in order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted August 23, 2005 Author Share Posted August 23, 2005 Original quote from da Bone Well, this little lot has certainly help poor Maverik choose a route NOT. I bet he's more confused than ever. __________________ with knobs on. As soon as i started to see the posts flood in i knew i had started something. The only thing i have learned is that Singles love their Singles, Duals love their Duals and never the twain shall meet. I guess its down to budget and what you want out of the car. Yeah if i was minted i would let Norris make a manbeast out of it and aim for the sky. I am not but dont want to spend cash on something i am not going to see an improvement in hence my interest in the Hybrid route. Sort of halfway house if my understanding is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 : I guess its down to budget and what you want out of the car. Yeah if i was minted i would let Norris make a manbeast out of it and aim for the sky. I am not but dont want to spend cash on something i am not going to see an improvement in hence my interest in the Hybrid route. Sort of halfway house if my understanding is correct. Nail on the head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I'm not knocking the stock system at all...what I don't believe is that you should just bolt on hybrids and leave it at that...I think you should do a proper job or you won't be able to enjoy the hybrids or single either way. Dale's second hand hybrid setup (which I believe is quite unique in having an external wastegate retrofitted and having to run it in TTC mode? (Is that right please correct me if I'm wrong)), will probably be good VFM but I'm not so convinced about "new" hybrids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Well, this little lot has certainly help poor Maverik choose a route NOT. I bet he's more confused than ever. True, but a good thread all the same. Its getting a little hot in here but some great opinions. Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supraman Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 It's helluva spooky that when i find myself in a dilema that a thread discussing it should appear!! I have been considering the same options (fortunately there is nothing wrong with my current stock turbos), but for me (and I suspect many of the Scottish members) there is the added complication that we have to take our cars down South to get them 'set-up' correctly! Needless to say I would be happy to stand corrected on that last point!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supraman Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 PS Bloody good thread too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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