tbourner Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I knew you'd say that. I'm not the one asking just clarifying what I think he was talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I think he meant if you plant your foot down from 1500 revs, will the wheels suddenly start spinning at 3000 revs? That's different to lag I believe? It's just before the turbo's boost range. Admittedly that won't happen very often round a corner, but if you judge it wrong and end up in low revs, then accelerate out of a soft corner you could loose it if you're not prepared for the oncoming boost. Oh, right, well, it's a goodly surge of power once the turbo comes online In the dry it's fine, in the wet it's a different matter. But you can feel it start to really wind up and short-shift or lift up a bit same as the sequential system, as Terry says. You have an artifical lag point of about 4200rpm no matter what gear you are in, if you hit this in the wet at WOT you'll get the same problems. -Ian PS and I also would like to know of the piston ring probs, can't say I recall one since Foden installed them upside down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Paul there is MUCH misinformation in this and the earlier post. Please explain to me, and everyone, how a singled car has affected the piston rings. Not "so and so" said, but actually explain it. Oh and the "majority" is a peach of a statement. How many hybrid failures have there been? No there isn't misinformation Terry - I know of one who suffered after he went single - so that was one issue of a few I highlighted as a result of a conversion... The single route is expensive and fraught with loads of problems...and I suspect that there are a few who would not go down that route again if they knew what they would face after I only have figures for hybrid successes - I am aware of three that we have done and all are very happy after 10K+ with no problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Piston rings was in a list of problems suffered by those having gone the single route. Sorry Paul BUT you have totaly lost me here BIG time. HTF can A bolt on blower Cause piston ring failure is beyond me . A single turbo will only show up a worn ring issue more When higher boost settings are reached BUT this means that the rings were worn in the first place and the bigger pressures just agrivate it ,so High boost Hybrids would do the same. Worns rings come about from an uncared for engine, bore wash, low oil pressure, incorect fueling ect ect ..not from Slaping a single on ..so this Myth needs to be put to bed. As with all engines not just Supra's ,when wanting to have more power, engine condition HAS to be taken into account . Banging a single on and running high boost on an engine that has had its nuts ragged of it for 10 year and been uncared for is only going to highlight wear issues that would have shown up over time any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Pretty much the same for the coil packs actually - if they are old and tired, a single install shows them up as so, rather than actually buggers them in the first place -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 One of the reasons I've gone for a single setup is the straight line potential, the other is from my experience around the track. (knockhill last time) My right foot gave me most of the 1-2 turbo control I needed but I would always be at the point of the second turbo coming on line and having to drive through the exit of the corner a little further to let no2 come on line because of the jolt between 1 and 2 coming on song. It wasnt a real issue but at least with the single setup correctly your right foot should soon get used to the power band and get to push the car a little further out of the corners... Just my pennies worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 No there isn't misinformation Terry - I know of one who suffered after he went single - so that was one issue of a few I highlighted as a result of a conversion... I also have seen many many engines that are running STOCK with worn rings and totaly failed rings puffing blue smoke like a goodun...And many of them were N/A ....so I am all ears to an explanation on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 No there isn't misinformation Terry - I know of one who suffered after he went single - so that was one issue of a few I highlighted as a result of a conversion... The single route is expensive and fraught with loads of problems...and I suspect that there are a few who would not go down that route again if they knew what they would face after I only have figures for hybrid successes - I am aware of three that we have done and all are very happy after 10K+ with no problems And as usual you do not answer a direct question, how can going single affect the piston rings. There is much misinformation in you post Paul. The scenarios you have listed could be attributed to hybrids too with the same modifications. You forget that I ran 3 sets of hybrids and have personally tried 5 different turbo configurations on my cars. If you are saying the hybrids are better because they dont require extra fuelling or management, then surely you would have to query their effectiveness and point. I know of far more than 3 people happy with their single kits Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 The intention was to highlight a real problem that occurred in a car after it went single - which ran well prior to going down this route. But the point is a good one - that a large blower will highlight (in spades) any and all weaknesses that may be inherent in a 10 / 12 yr old car - but I did not agree that a set of good hybrids will cause the same levels of degredation - the power throughput from a 330 RWHP compared with a 500 RWHP? The problems often occur with peripheral equipment that is put under the extra strain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 . I know of far more than 3 people happy with their single kits Paul. And I know of more who, knowing what they know now, would never have gone down that route... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 The intention was to highlight a real problem that occurred in a car after it went single - which ran well prior to going down this route. But the point is a good one - that a large blower will highlight (in spades) any and all weaknesses that may be inherent in a 10 / 12 yr old car - but I did not agree that a set of good hybrids will cause the same levels of degredation - the power throughput from a 330 RWHP compared with a 500 RWHP? The problems often occur with peripheral equipment that is put under the extra strain So you cant explain the rings.....so just say so or don't post BS. Surely the reason for going for Singles or stock is to generate more power. You are correct in saying that a single will put more strain on internals, but this is purely because they make much more power! You can choose the single turbo, choose the amount of power, choose the spool etc, get my point. But trust me, if you have a sound bottom there is not an issue. Hybrids do seem prone to premature failure. All turbos can fail, but when its a singled car the replacement is both easier and cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 And I know of more who, knowing what they know now, would never have gone down that route... Then they socialise in the wrong circles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Far too often there are too many problems following single conversions, mapping, fuelling, plugs, rings, idling etc etc OK so we have dealt with the rings Paul, now explain the idling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerotop Dave Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Just before the thread goes into meltdown I wish to ask another of my technically dense questions: So what's to stop someone keeping the sequential system and fitting two big 'singles' in place of the stockers? Then you have the best of both worlds. I assume something prevents that from being possible...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 So you cant explain the rings.....so just say so or don't post BS. Hybrids do seem prone to premature failure. All turbos can fail, but when its a singled car the replacement is both easier and cheaper. Yes I can explain the rings - failure through putting on a blower that worked them too hard for their state of health... This is just red herring stuff that detracts from the main issue - The single route is expensive and has to be done properly and with full thought to the potential problems that will come about through putting your engine and internals under extra strain - not to mention the ECU / mapping issues Hybrids are a perfectly acceptable option that also has ramifications in terms of set-up but come with far less hassle (oh and I am not aware of any failure in those fitted recently) All IMHO of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 AFAIK Dave no one makes a big sequential system, and one good reason for removing the stock sequential system is that it is prone to failure, be it turbo or VSV related. BTW, there is no need for this to turn into meltdown, I would just aprreciated people backing up their statements with hard facts. Heres a hard fact, I had a catastrophic failure with a set on hybrids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 So what's to stop someone keeping the sequential system and fitting two big 'singles' in place of the stockers? Then you have the best of both worlds. I assume something prevents that from being possible...? The very prohibitive cost mainly (hence why no one has even tried selling a commercial version), size restrictions in the area due to retaining the stock seq. system (and its associated problems), manifold design etc - many other factors Regards, Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 OK so we have dealt with the rings Paul, now explain the idling Poor mapping as a result of going single and fitting aftermarket piggback ECU's Shall we get into the turbo transition phase next and talk about the difficulties of doing this right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Heres a hard fact, I had a catastrophic failure with a set on hybrids...OK - lets get back on track - what caused this Terry? Edit...Bollox - have to go now - just when getting interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerotop Dave Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 So technically, given the underbonnet space restrictions (turbo in the passenger footwell anyone?) and the old 'it's not how fast you want to go it's how much you want to spend' adage it would be possible? (if you're prepared to custom make/modify a lot of the bits) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Just before the thread goes into meltdown I wish to ask another of my technically dense questions: So what's to stop someone keeping the sequential system and fitting two big 'singles' in place of the stockers? Then you have the best of both worlds. I assume something prevents that from being possible...? Do you mean bigger sequential twins or parallel twins? The latter is catered for in the HKS GT Twin 2835 kits. The former is too costly to ever be worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Yes I can explain the rings - failure through putting on a blower that worked them too hard for their state of health... This is just red herring stuff that detracts from the main issue - The single route is expensive and has to be done properly and with full thought to the potential problems that will come about through putting your engine and internals under extra strain - not to mention the ECU / mapping issues Hybrids are a perfectly acceptable option that also has ramifications in terms of set-up but come with far less hassle (oh and I am not aware of any failure in those fitted recently) All IMHO of course No Paul, You have latched onto what Mig said, say thank you to him. If the engine was in a poor state of health then the problem would have arisen anyway. This is the issue. You are constantly bad mouthing singles. AFAIK you have never owned one, or ever fitted one, so your opinion is hardly subjective Idle please.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 OK - lets get back on track - what caused this Terry? Edit...Bollox - have to go now - just when getting interesting... Yeah lets, poor manufacturer. They came from the palce that used to supply yours..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I've never driven or fitted one either (don't mention pattern emerging), and I still believe that twins of some kind are better for low budget replacements. Maybe not better overall for many reasons, but better for LOW BUDGET replacements of broken stocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Poor mapping as a result of going single and fitting aftermarket piggback ECU's Shall we get into the turbo transition phase next and talk about the difficulties of doing this right? That's not the "fault" of the single kit though is it??? FFS...mapping a car is seperate...you have to make 3 very big decisions when going for more power. What's going to supply the air for more power, what's going add the fuel for the power and what's going to CONTROL those two functions. The ECU choice is not down to the single turbo kit. We all know what's the right way to do things...it's not a single turbo's fault if the owner can't do things properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.