Air con mod idea, increase bhp for free!!

[Arron]

[Scott]

Please Scott, elaborate

 

It's quite simple really, there are a couple of things...

 

On one hand you are saying that the intake charge temperature is paramount to the power, yet on the other hand you stated that although an FMIC is more efficient and will cool the air better it's not really required at the sort of power levels that you are looking to run.

 

So what do you want? Do you actually want to get the intake temperatures lower? Or do you just want to hook up the AC system regardless of how complicated, awkward and pointless it is?

 

 

Next.. you mentioned the extra oomph during the Winter that tends to annoy you during the summer. Lets say that you have assembled this AC contraption to lower the air temp by a few degrees, and lets say it nets you an extra 10hp. What's going to happen in the Winter? The intake temps will be lower, as you know, and the AC contraption will lower the air further, this part you seem to have disregarded, thus giving you that further boost that you currently notice.

 

End result? No matter what you do to the intake or the car, you will ALWAYS feel a performance gain when the ambient air is considerably lower. There is no amount of faffing around with AC coolers, charge coolers, FMICs or anything else that is going to change that.

[James]

It's quite simple really, there are a couple of things...

 

On one hand you are saying that the intake charge temperature is paramount to the power, yet on the other hand you stated that although an FMIC is more efficient and will cool the air better it's not really required at the sort of power levels that you are looking to run.

 

So what do you want? Do you actually want to get the intake temperatures lower? Or do you just want to hook up the AC system regardless of how complicated, awkward and pointless it is?

 

 

Next.. you mentioned the extra oomph during the Winter that tends to annoy you during the summer. Lets say that you have assembled this AC contraption to lower the air temp by a few degrees, and lets say it nets you an extra 10hp. What's going to happen in the Winter? The intake temps will be lower, as you know, and the AC contraption will lower the air further, this part you seem to have disregarded, thus giving you that further boost that you currently notice.

 

End result? No matter what you do to the intake or the car, you will ALWAYS feel a performance gain when the ambient air is considerably lower. There is no amount of faffing around with AC coolers, charge coolers, FMICs or anything else that is going to change that.

 

Duh - you just turn off the air con in the winter Scott. Temps are naturally low and you stay warmer in the car. Doesn't take a genius jeeeeeeez...

[Noz]

More power in the winter? I disagree,

[Scott]

Duh - you just turn off the air con in the winter Scott. Temps are naturally low and you stay warmer in the car. Doesn't take a genius jeeeeeeez...

 

Of course, silly me! You only want the extra oomph in the Summer. In the Winter the device will be turned off to increase the inake temps, hold back the power a little and retain the status quo.

 

I may be seen as a bit of a mad scientist, but hows about setting the boost to 1.1bar in the winter instead of 1.2, retaining that extra 0.1 to mitigate the performance increase of the cold weather.

 

Or... a deck of cards behind the accelerator in winter, that would do it too!

 

So many options to chose from, must admit... I'd take the cards before re-plumbing the AC

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

More power in the winter? I disagree,

 

Is there a punchline here?

[Ian C]

Fact, cooler intake charge temp increases bhp noticeably, just see the diff between winter and summer driving. This is why most people go for the FMIC. The mod, which I now have global rights on , will without a shadow of a doubt work. "I will give my Supra away if anyone can prove me wrong"

 

Any takers for my car? lol

 

I'm game. I take you up on your offer of giving away your car.

 

First we need to better define this statement:

"The mod will without a shadow of a doubt work."

 

The mod in this case is defined by you as being:

"a custom pipe was made and a feed taken from one of the 2 drivers vents (behind the dash of course) and then channeled through along the inner wing and pointed at the air intake filter"

So that's a feed from ONE (singular) driver's vent, just behind the dash. It is then routed via standard piping and no further cooling methods to simply vent into atmosphere by the air intake filter.

 

Activating the mod is defined thus:

"Just crank up the air con and pedal to the floor"

So you turn on the aircon and presumably the fan speed to maximum and then go wide open throttle.

 

And your the definition of "work" is:

"increases bhp noticeably"

and

"this mod will make the 3000 rpm + rev ranges awesome"

A 'noticeable' increase in BHP is of course subjective, and also the higher the current bhp, the higher the increase needed to still be noticeable. If we go for the turbo Supra average of Stock to BPU, that's between 300 to 400 bhp. You'd need a 10% increase to be noticeable in my opinion, so call it 35bhp as an average between the two. For this effect to be noticeable, of course, it also need to compensate for the power drain the aircon pump and electrical fan puts on the engine. As it'll be running flat out that's about 10bhp , so you need to net 45bhp in total from this.

 

Also, 'awesome' is, while subjective, a very strong word to use. An awesome increase in the 3000+rpm area implies a much higher increase than 35bhp, probably more like 150bhp. But being generous I'll ignore that superlative for now

 

Reasons I should get your car:

1) Has anyone here got a shadow of a doubt that the above described setup won't net you at least 45bhp? I have, but I may be biased as I've got a free car coming to me.

2) A rough calculation online shows you'd need a drop of 20+degC intake temps to get anything like these gains, and that's with crap intercooling. Considering how long it takes to cool the cabin of a hot car, I doubt one vent can deliver a 20degC drop to a 3 litre engine running at 6750 revs with a bar of boost.

3) Finally, at "pedal to the floor", or WOT, the ECU turns off the aircon system to give you maximum power. Car please.

 

-Ian

[listy]

I'd also like to mention that in the thread title, you say "increase bhp for free!!".

 

It won't be free will it? There is the cost of all the fabrication to get it to work which, as a one off, won't be particularly cheap on its own.

 

As I, and others have already said, if it was worth doing, it would have been done. I can't see it making enough gain to warrant the cost of the custom fabrication. Decent ducting will improve intake temps and cost a lot less.

[Kirk]

3) Finally, at "pedal to the floor", or WOT, the ECU turns off the aircon system to give you maximum power. Car please.

 

-Ian

 

Game, set and match.

[Ian C]

I'd also like to mention that in the thread title, you say "increase bhp for free!!".

 

It won't be free will it? There is the cost of all the fabrication to get it to work which, as a one off, won't be particularly cheap on its own.

 

As I, and others have already said, if it was worth doing, it would have been done. I can't see it making enough gain to warrant the cost of the custom fabrication. Decent ducting will improve intake temps and cost a lot less.

 

It's not monetary free, it's also not power free as you'd be using up power to run the aircon. One thing that is free, though, is my free Supra that should be on it's way real soon now

[Chris Wilson]

This reminds me of an old gentleman who once told me, when I was pontificating on a subject I had no real grasp of, "On this subject if you keep your mouth shut people can only surmise you know bugger all about it".

[listy]

@Ian........will you break this Supra or seel it? Or keep it as a momento?

 

I say, the only way to know for sure, is for Arron to try it. That way, (when he finds out he is wrong ) he will not only lose his car, but will down cash too.

If you were to decide to go on with this idea, you would need a stock, or custom airbox, to avoid the air warming up rather quickly, and to stop it venting to the atmosphere.

 

On the other hand, further to my last post, iirc Slutters saw a 20degree (ish) drop in intake temps just from decent ducting. Hense why I view this as a better idea, as it has been proven with testing by Slutters himself.

[Scott]

It's not monetary free, it's also not power free as you'd be using up power to run the aircon. One thing that is free, though, is my free Supra that should be on it's way real soon now

 

I have a feeling he'll trump you by using the power window button to control the throttle and a mobile phone as the ECU to bypass the "Aircon off on WOT" issue.

[Arron]

Please read again and take your time to digest what I said and within which context I said it.

 

1/ Power intake charge temp is paramount to the power - Yes. However, as per your quote "although an FMIC is more efficient and will cool the air better it's not really required at the sort of power levels that you are looking to run" You have misunderstood what I meant here. Here, I'm merely stating FMIC to emphasize the importance/benefit of lower air intake temps. The second time I mentioned the FMIC is just stating fact - you don't really need a FMIC until you're pushing 400bhp+ as the Japs have made a great standard inter-cooler which is good for 400bhp Sorry if I somehow confused you.

 

I love the thought of being able to increase bhp by lowering the air temperature without "edit" massive costs . Aside - according to physics this idea "will work" My car is still up for grabs

 

2/ If you kept in mind the "whole thread" you will have already realized this scenario has already been discussed (a shut-off valve).

 

End result - please read thread again and try me for round 2 ding ding

 

It's quite simple really, there are a couple of things...

 

On one hand you are saying that the intake charge temperature is paramount to the power, yet on the other hand you stated that although an FMIC is more efficient and will cool the air better it's not really required at the sort of power levels that you are looking to run.

 

So what do you want? Do you actually want to get the intake temperatures lower? Or do you just want to hook up the AC system regardless of how complicated, awkward and pointless it is?

 

 

Next.. you mentioned the extra oomph during the Winter that tends to annoy you during the summer. Lets say that you have assembled this AC contraption to lower the air temp by a few degrees, and lets say it nets you an extra 10hp. What's going to happen in the Winter? The intake temps will be lower, as you know, and the AC contraption will lower the air further, this part you seem to have disregarded, thus giving you that further boost that you currently notice.

 

End result? No matter what you do to the intake or the car, you will ALWAYS feel a performance gain when the ambient air is considerably lower. There is no amount of faffing around with AC coolers, charge coolers, FMICs or anything else that is going to change that.

[Arron]

This thread has really got everyone going

[Abz]

This is quite a funny thread, could we have this as a sticky please?!

[Arron]

BTW here's a link to let you know what's up for grabs

 

Bad Boy Supra (without air con mod!)

[Scott]

Please read again and take your time to digest what I said and within which context I said it.

 

1/ Power intake charge temp is paramount to the power - Yes. However, as per your quote "although an FMIC is more efficient and will cool the air better it's not really required at the sort of power levels that you are looking to run" You have misunderstood what I meant here. Here, I'm merely stating FMIC to emphasize the importance/benefit of lower air intake temps. The second time I mentioned the FMIC is just stating fact - you don't really need a FMIC until you're pushing 400bhp+ as the Japs have made a great standard inter-cooler which is good for 400bhp Sorry if I somehow confused you.

 

I love the thought of being able to increase bhp by lowering the air temperature without "edit" massive costs . Aside - according to physics this idea "will work" My car is still up for grabs

 

2/ If you kept in mind the "whole thread" you will have already realized this scenario has already been discussed (a shut-off valve).

 

End result - please read thread again and try me for round 2 ding ding

 

 

Crikey, the farce is strong in this one!

 

 

Ok, I'll re-invent the wheel with you.....

 

 

1.. An FMIC isn't required at these sort of power levels as the stock side mount intercooler isn't a restriction and does a good enough job of cooling the charge in order to happily run a 400HP+ car. HOWEVER, replacing the stock SMIC with a more efficient variant (Better SMIC or a larger FMIC) with proper ducting WILL lower the intake temperatures as the more efficient item will do a more efficient job of cooling the air efficiently.... noticing the pattern yet? An FMIC will be even less of a restriction on the air flow (less heat, cooler airflow again), but it will take a bit longer to pressurise so it will be slightly laggier than an SMIC, I doubt this would be noticeable though.

 

 

As for part2..... You mean you really were going to turn off the power increasing feature in the Winter? You really are a bit bonkers aren't you. This takes me back to the point I made in jest. Run your car at 1.0 or 1.1bar in the winter, crank it up to 1.2bar in the summer. This will give you a more efficient and completely free power increase during the summer months.

[Scott]

BTW here's a link to let you know what's up for grabs

 

Bad Boy Supra (without air con mod!)

 

 

Ian already owns that car bud..... or did you miss his points (like you've missed every other point in this entire thread)?

[James]

Why don't we just hook up a few of the following directly to the battery and tie-wrap them down next to the stock airbox?

 

http://www.rainbowpacks.com/files/images/IMG_0342.jpg

[Scott]

Why don't we just hook up a few of the following directly to the battery and tie-wrap them down next to the stock airbox?

 

http://www.rainbowpacks.com/files/images/IMG_0342.jpg

 

 

That would be a silly idea.

[Arron]

Is that the best you got? lmao

Ian already owns that car bud..... or did you miss his points (like you've missed every other point in this entire thread)?

[Al Massey]

To the Op.

 

You made the bet, and have clearly lost.

 

Your posts often reiterate each post over and over again without addressing the actual decent responses given.

 

Your argument at best is do able but will not be significant as proven.

 

Now since you made your bet, with plenty of witnesses I might add, it is your duty as not only a gentleman, but a man of honour, to honour your wager.

[mawby]

That would be a silly idea.

 

Of course it is, what you really need is a garden blower...

 

[Arron]

A Facebook like for that

Why don't we just hook up a few of the following directly to the battery and tie-wrap them down next to the stock airbox?

 

http://www.rainbowpacks.com/files/images/IMG_0342.jpg

[Arron]

Only because I have to. Now where is the "data"

 

Please post and take the Supra!

 

To the Op.

 

You made the bet, and have clearly lost.

 

Your posts often reiterate each post over and over again without addressing the actual decent responses given.

 

Your argument at best is do able but will not be significant as proven.

 

Now since you made your bet, with plenty of witnesses I might add, it is your duty as not only a gentleman, but a man of honour, to honour your wager.