Upgrades - a lot of questions before I start !

[AxelB.]

Hi all,

 

Now that I have fixed most of my small probs on my stock Supra, I'm thinking about going BPU.

When my turbos give up (and only at that moment), I'll replace them with a bigger setup, but I won't go for a single turbo setup. I want to stay with Twins.

To start with the right info, here are my car's specs :

 

Supra RZ, JDM, Auto gearbox

At the moment the car is completely stock (it even still has the speed limiter at 180 km/h ! ).

At the very end, my goal would be to reach between 550 - 600 hp.

 

First question - What are the most adapted twin turbos for the power I'm planning to get, considering I'll probably be BPU (+ FMIC) at this moment ?

 

Then, as I'm going to start (logically !) with the basic parts upgrade, is there something I need to care about to make sure not buying upgrades that will have to be replaced when I change the turbos ?

I mean, I'd like to avoid, for example, getting an exhaust system that would be OK for BPU but that would need to be changed if the twins are replaced because too restrictive, or something...

I want to buy immediately parts that will suit & help me to reach the power I want to get, and build my BPU setup considering the next and last upgrades.

 

To give a concrete example, I'm looking closely at the Garage Whifbitz packs. I'm hearing a lot of good advices on them, for a relatively cheap price.

Especially that one, that includes everything I want to fit in my car for the moment, with my stock twins :

http://www.garagewhifbitz.co.uk/index.php/garage-whifbitz-850.html

(of course i'll have to add a cat-back as it's not included in the pack)

Will these parts be OK if I'm replacing my twins in the future ? Any feedback on this pack ?..

 

Another question then - as my car is an automatic, do I need to change absolutely my transmission BEFORE I get the new turbos, or can't I simply use the boost controller in order to restrict the power to a safe limit for the gearbox ?

(guess the answer is the second option, but I prefer to get a confirmation !)

 

Uh, you've guessed it, I'm totally new in the world of upgrades (I previously thought I would keep my Supra stock... but finally, no ! ), so maybe these points have been covered.. However I'm still asking, considering you have there my setup and the power I want to reach.

 

Many thanks in advance and have a nice day !

[tony tt]

The stock twins wont make 550 - 600hp cheapest way would be a small single turbo set up but you will need to upgrade the auto box as that maxes out around 500hp. Aftermarket twins is dooable but more expensive. I think Mitchell9006 might be worth a pm or check his project thread.

For now the bpu parts you plan to buy are fine and the cat back exhaust will be fine when you upgrade also. Click the BPU in blue and it will tell you everything you will need to know about what you need. 550 to 600hp quite a few bits would need changed. Turbo, fuel set up, injectors, ECU etc...... Start with BPU and go from there check some of the project threads to give you an idea of what's involved in a safe 600hp set up.

Edited August 12, 2013 by tony tt (see edit history)

[AxelB.]

Thanks for your quick answer mate !

Yes, I know the stock twins won't be sufficient. I'm planning to reach this power once I'll have my turbos changed ! To be honest, I don't care how much power I'll get once I'll be BPU, as this will only be an intermediate level of upgrade.

But I'd like to know if there are some aftermarket twinturbos to increase my car's power, just like people fit aftermarket single turbos.. =D

 

Also thanks for the confirmation regarding the parts I mentionned ;-)

[Chris Bailey]

You seem to know a few things about the supra. A few things I would like to add...

 

1. The stock twins wont make 500-600bhp. You might make 500bhp on Stage 3 Hybrid turbos (But THEY may not last that long)

2. The Garage Whifbitz Stage 4 pack would be a great place to start

3. As for maxing out the autobox, I wouldn't worry to much about maxing it out at BPU levels. You will be okay! But for anything over 500bhp on the stock autobox it is a good idea to invest in a couple of gearbox oil coolers.

[SPG]

Just in case the OP is not aware, the changing of Turbo's means that none of the factory set-up (twin turbo) will be used, this mean basically new manifold, new twins, custom intercooler pipework, ECU, Injectors, etc etc.

 

You can upgrade the current turbos to a hybrid set-up which would use the factory set-up, but which would see the turbines replaced from Ceramic Blades to Steel internals, thus allowing for more boost to be utilised. Longevity is a different matter depending on how hard you run these Hybrids.

[SupraDan24]

Unless you have exceptionally deep pockets, i would scrap the twin turbo idea. Go for a nice single setup, you won't be disappointed.

[listy]

I've been looking into exactly the same kind of thing as you are. The only place I have found that does the upgraded turbos for the sequential system, that claims 550-600hp safely, is SupraStore. Only problem is, I wouldn't want to get them from there, due to shipping problems.

 

However, as I said, to get to the magic 500+ point, you will at least need a stand alone ecu (preferably, you may get away with a piggyback), upgraded cams, a more free flowing exhaust (3" was recommended to me by SupraStore), bigger injectors (650cc I was advised) possibly an aftermarket fuel rail, and more I expect.

 

By the time you add it all up, a small single build won't be much different in price.

[Homer]

Unless you have exceptionally deep pockets, i would scrap the twin turbo idea. Go for a nice single setup, you won't be disappointed.

 

This. Twin turbo's are much more expensive than single turbo and with your power goals twins would be fairly pointless IMO. The single route is the most cost effective way to get over 500bhp, but then as mentioned almost everything has to replaced exhaust side along with fueling and engine management.

 

You'll need to make sure you have at least £6k available to go from BPU to single. This does not include the auto box mods and you WILL need to do something about the box (either go for lots of coolers and try your luck with the standard one, change to a manual box or go for an uprated auto box like the boostlogic).

[AxelB.]

Yeah, regarding the autobox, sure it's OK for BPU level. After, I'll consider either swapping it for a manual box, or for the boostlogic.. I would prefer the second option. Then I'll just have to find it.

 

Concerning the turbos, I didn't know changing the turbos means changing manifold/pipework. I'm a bit sceptic about upgrading stock turbos... I'll try to get some info on this, but for sure I'll never push them at a level that would reduce their reliability.

 

@ listy - and even for a small single setup, I'll need the 3" exhaust ? Then the Whifbitz might not be sufficient at that moment, as it's 2.5", I guess..

 

The only thing I fear on a single setup is the moment before the turbo throws the power - I'm used to the sequential twin setup, that reacts fairly quickly (and I even didn't tested BPU, as I've been told, it changes the car from A to Z !).. That's the reason I wanted to go for a twin turbo setup, with new turbos... didn't know it was so expensive to make, anyway =/

[listy]

A three inch exhaust isn't a necessity, it just helps with the flow of gases, therefore, gaining a little bit of extra hp.

[Homer]

The only thing I fear on a single setup is the moment before the turbo throws the power - I'm used to the sequential twin setup, that reacts fairly quickly (and I even didn't tested BPU, as I've been told, it changes the car from A to Z !).. That's the reason I wanted to go for a twin turbo setup, with new turbos... didn't know it was so expensive to make, anyway =/

 

The single turbo setup can actually be a little smoother than BPU if you do it right. It's got a smoother torque curve but to get it right is where the trickery is at. There are aftermarket sequential setups available but they are extremely expensive, much more than the usual single or twin turbo upgrade. The stock turbo's can be changed with new internals, but then you still need to do the fuelling, ecu, etc. It makes more sense to just go down the single route rather than try and get that last few HP from the stock sequential system.

 

I did my old single conversion myself and it still cost over £8k, that was starting at BPU and with a V160 6spd. Getting to BPU power levels (400bhp) is very cheap, getting to 450bhp is expensive, going above 500bhp is serious money. especially if you have an auto.

[Homer]

A three inch exhaust isn't a necessity, it just helps with the flow of gases, therefore, gaining a little bit of extra hp.

 

Actually, it doesn't. Tried it years ago, a 2.25in system made no difference to the torque curve compared to 3in on my car, it lost a little power in the low end after changing to 3in.

[listy]

Actually, it doesn't. Tried it years ago, a 2.25in system made no difference to the torque curve compared to 3in on my car, it lost a little power in the low end after changing to 3in.

 

Hmmm then I have been mis-informed.

[AxelB.]

Right. Thanks a lot to all of you for these precious pieces of information.

Then, when the time will come (and the money, ahah !), I'll try to go single and having it as smooth as possible.

 

Homer, you're telling me about getting to 400 bhp (-> typically, BPU classic upgrades I guess), then getting to 450 bhp.. Is there something I can add to BPU before going single that would help raise power ?

I mean, there's some additionnal modifications that would more help the car staying reliable than being more powerful (I'm thinking about all the cooling addings like FMIC, etc, am I right ?), but I've always thought the next mandatory step to get more power after raising the boost & changing the exhaust line was changing the turbos..

[listy]

People have hit around 450hp with the addition of a Syvecs ecu and going TTC, but again, it's a £1500-£2000 ecu, plus mapping on top.

[tony tt]

+1 for Syvecs great mod even at bpu level on ttc mode properly mapped of course. Plus the Syvecs will mange the single set up no problem at all even if you decide on more power eventually.

[AxelB.]

All right !

Thanks for your answers.