Noz Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I've seen that DEI sell co2 fuel coolers. As well as the standard method of a small rad for the fuel, I've never seen such items. Is fuel temperature directly related to output performance. With hot fuel, I can't see it expanding that much, creating a denser fluid when cold giving higher output. Am now on the hunt for information and thought I'd ask for advice here as well as listing any findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Any heat that can be removed from induction temps is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 That's what I'm currently looking at. Which is why I done some research on intercooler temp reduction systems. Obviously I need to see the benefit from the water injection first to see if anything else apart from heat soak prevention is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slutters Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Hi mate Best thing for reducing inlet temps is good ducting, it made a massive difference of over 30 degrees on mine! http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?291582-FMIC-Ducting-and-IAT-cooling-mods! I am also running water injection, more as a safety feature than a cooling one for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartmann Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flex-a-lite-Fluid-Cooler-Fuel-Tube-Fin-Copper-Aluminum-Natural-3-1-2-x12-x3-4/111118980258?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D9133477834111974309%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D390611106845%26 will be fitting this to my return line ... do i need it ? i dont know. but my pump sends alot fuel around. so a couple of times around the lines and bay it will be heating up nicely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 on diesels fuel coolers are very common as standard so there is something with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 Slutters your modifications have made me wonder about how effective my engine is running. Always the hunt for more power is there inside of us, but knowing how well our current setup is working is not usually considered! Ducting and temperature is one think I'm looking into. It's cheap and works. I think more research is needed, and at some point il do a comparison if I buy a product. The eBay fuel cooler looks nice, and it's fairly well priced as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Hi mate Best thing for reducing inlet temps is good ducting, it made a massive difference of over 30 degrees on mine! http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?291582-FMIC-Ducting-and-IAT-cooling-mods! I am also running water injection, more as a safety feature than a cooling one for me. Where did you get the heat proof wrap for the intake? The black stuff and the silver 'tinfoil' esk looking stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisLupus Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 A friend of mine had a Problem with fuel beeing heated by his twin Pump Setup. While running low load or idle AFR values rose without Closed Loop correcting it. So hotter Fuel will affect AFRs and performance too(colder Fuel colder intake charge). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Hi mate Best thing for reducing inlet temps is good ducting, it made a massive difference of over 30 degrees on mine! http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?291582-FMIC-Ducting-and-IAT-cooling-mods! I am also running water injection, more as a safety feature than a cooling one for me. That's very impressive!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Will be very interesting to find out about this and any methods to improve reliability and performance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slutters Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Where did you get the heat proof wrap for the intake? The black stuff and the silver 'tinfoil' esk looking stuff? Hi mate The lagging is industrial pipe insulation made by Wabesto and the silver foil is the tape for joining it togther. You can get it from screwfix etc. That's very impressive!! Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Awesome thanks. Also did u but the induction pipe from a hardware store too? Or was that car specific? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 interesting. In the jet world we actually heat our fuel up by way of a fuel cooled oil cooler to take heat from the oil and put it into our fuel. Without digging too much into the tech and i would need to get some books out i wonder if this is purley as we opperate at height and hence our fuel becomes too cold. Got me thinkng now!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 interesting. In the jet world we actually heat our fuel up by way of a fuel cooled oil cooler to take heat from the oil and put it into our fuel. Without digging too much into the tech and i would need to get some books out i wonder if this is purley as we opperate at height and hence our fuel becomes too cold. Got me thinkng now!!! Ok. Ignore the jet scenario its becasue you have water in fuel and at altitude freezes which is bad. However the colder fuel the better, in a car freezing water particles within the fuel would not be as much of a problem as it would melt rapidly. I dont actually see any down sides to over cooling fuel in a motor vehicle. What im also thinking of is using the fuel to cool the oil and using an cooler to cool the fuel by air....heavy but worth a thought. surely fuel is the best cooling medium for oil rather than an inefficient air/oil cooler!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 So your suggesting running fuel over an oil cooler, much like a charge cooler but use the fuel going into the engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLMKIV Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313&_nkw=fuel+cooler&_sacat=0&_from=R40 Found this fuel cooling items on ebay. It seems that there are more than a few ways to cool the fuel. I have an MQ-1C drone liquid to liquid cooler that I will be modding to go on my car. Any cooling of oil or fuel seems to work wanders acording to this thread. Thanks for the info. Seems like NOS without the spray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 Still not found a lot of information regarding any benefits of cold fuel. Can find a lot to do with issues or over heating fuel, but none with performance benefits of low temperature fuel. Is this another area of engine tuning that only a comparison on the dyno will prove? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 Aside from the benefits of cooler fuel (which are yet to be confirmed with data), the ignition point of petrol is 246°C. Some useful information. I would like to find further information on the pre-ignition when in combustion application upon compression as it's obviously much less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodalmighty Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Subaru and Nissan run fuel temp sensors on some of their engines so there must be something in it. It stands to reason hot fuel will be less dense. I had a rather silly 235 x 19 Mocal rad as a fuel cooler on my return line. I didn't have to run any cold start enrichment on the ecu as the cooler chilled it a the same rate as the engine got up to temp, so you can over do it Lyndon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 That's a big fuel rad. If I was going to cool it, I would probably consider a co2 dei setup before a IC spray bar. I don't want any more rad's! Has anyone ever considered the thermal expansion of fuel and calculated it? I found some equations last night that had been roughly done, and looked around 20% denser from 0° to 21°. It was probably wrong, but when I get the chance over the week (if no one else has a go) I'll use the coefficient of expansion and see if I can get some decent comparisons. The only thing to then consider, is how could a ratio of fuel volume be used against power output. If this was possible, then a direct relationship between fuel temperature and power output could be made; obviously a variation of power with no other changes, environmental or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/14489/Fuel-expansion-with-temp-less-m-p-g Interesting read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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