Twisted Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I'm looking for a decent FMIC that can handle BPU. I have seen a few around, but I'm unsure as to a few things. - whats the biggest size intercooler can I fit with no extra modifications? - are FMIC pretty straight forward to fit? (I.e. bolt on - done) - what are your opinions on a mishimoto intercooler? I'm going to buy BPU bits slowly so that next year I can wack them all on, tell the insurance and afford the increase of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrashcanman Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I'm looking for a decent FMIC that can handle BPU. I have seen a few around, but I'm unsure as to a few things. - whats the biggest size intercooler can I fit with no extra modifications? - are FMIC pretty straight forward to fit? (I.e. bolt on - done) - what are your opinions on a mishimoto intercooler? I'm going to buy BPU bits slowly so that next year I can wack them all on, tell the insurance and afford the increase of it! I think CW or Paul Whiffin, both do uprated SMIC that will easily handle BPU. Maybe try them for an easier option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobUK Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Also SRD do a great kit - on my car (bpu) and nothing major to fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideexitsupra Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 If you fit a front mount you will probably need to do all or some of the following depending in the kit you buy. 1 remove the stock Airbox and fit an induction kit ( cheap eBay kits are like this) as the pipe work will foul the Airbox. 2 Remove the power steering cooler and replace with a cooler in the passenger side bumper hole. Better kits will have these included 3 replace / move the radiator expansion tank as the top of the intercooler will foul it. 4 remove active front spoiler electrics if you have one. I have a front mount and to be honest, wished I had spent a bit more one one of the side mounts mentioned above! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) SMIC from CW is the way to go Lots of plus's going this route, keep your airbox, dont block of the airflow to the radiator, no need to relocate the ps cooler or expansion tank or lose the front electronic splitter if you have one. Edited May 30, 2013 by Dnk (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 SMIC from CW is the way to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulj1 Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Paul whiffins fmics are great well made easy to fit kit with power steering cooler relocate but you will need a induction kit in order to fit as well as moving expansion tank to under headlight. The kit is great quality and excellent value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 Thanks guys. I'll look into both of those. I'm wanting a FMIC because I like the look of the pipes at the front. Is there any differences in performance with SMIC vs FMIC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 A FMIC is only as good as the core quality (many Ebay ones are simply dire) and the end tank shape and flow (most are dire). If the bumper aperture does not lend itself to utilising all the core area, and masks a third off, that third is totally wasted. If the bumper / IC combination doesn't have a duct to MAKE all the airfllow go THROUGH the cooler air will take the easy route and go AROUND the cooler. FMIC's impact air con and water rad performance. There is a lot more to effectively using a FMIC than 99% of sellers admit to, and 50% of users think about. And no, I am not pushing my side mount IC, I am pragmatic enough to accept I am unlikely to sell any more, as I need an minimum of three orders and the MKIV Supra world is `a' changin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 Doesn't the same apply to SMIC when it comes to masking the IC? How does a SMIC allow for a more effective airflow THROUGH the IC than compared to a FMIC? From what I've seen on my supra I have a SMIC as standard and it doesn't look like its got a great deal of it being exposed to decent airflow. (I'm still learning about surpas and only been a military mechanic for a year. please bear with my lack of knowledge) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Doesn't the same apply to SMIC when it comes to masking the IC? How does a SMIC allow for a more effective airflow THROUGH the IC than compared to a FMIC? From what I've seen on my supra I have a SMIC as standard and it doesn't look like its got a great deal of it being exposed to decent airflow. (I'm still learning about surpas and only been a military mechanic for a year. please bear with my lack of knowledge) Because Toyota spent lots of R&D money making sure it gets maximum flow, also taking advantage of high to low pressure areas too, check out the ducting behind the arch liner and bumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 VERY briefly the SMIC is fully ducted and all the air through the diverging inlet in the bumper HAS to go through the core. It also (cleverly) exits into the low pressure area (when moving) of the front wheel aperture, wher the "suck and blow" combination make it an incredibly efficient set up. The R&D that went into this is not trivial. Trying to better it with a bigger FMIC is not trivial either. FMIC's also result in you having to delete the stock duct to the water and air con heat exchangers, direct from the stock bumper mouth. But sellers never tell you that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrashcanman Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 VERY briefly the SMIC is fully ducted and all the air through the diverging inlet in the bumper HAS to go through the core. It also (cleverly) exits into the low pressure area (when moving) of the front wheel aperture, wher the "suck and blow" combination make it an incredibly efficient set up. The R&D that went into this is not trivial. Trying to better it with a bigger FMIC is not trivial either. FMIC's also result in you having to delete the stock duct to the water and air con heat exchangers, direct from the stock bumper mouth. But sellers never tell you that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveR Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 A FMIC is only as good as the core quality (many Ebay ones are simply dire) and the end tank shape and flow (most are dire). If the bumper aperture does not lend itself to utilising all the core area, and masks a third off, that third is totally wasted. If the bumper / IC combination doesn't have a duct to MAKE all the airfllow go THROUGH the cooler air will take the easy route and go AROUND the cooler. FMIC's impact air con and water rad performance. There is a lot more to effectively using a FMIC than 99% of sellers admit to, and 50% of users think about. And no, I am not pushing my side mount IC, I am pragmatic enough to accept I am unlikely to sell any more, as I need an minimum of three orders and the MKIV Supra world is `a' changin' Because Toyota spent lots of R&D money making sure it gets maximum flow, also taking advantage of high to low pressure areas too, check out the ducting behind the arch liner and bumper VERY briefly the SMIC is fully ducted and all the air through the diverging inlet in the bumper HAS to go through the core. It also (cleverly) exits into the low pressure area (when moving) of the front wheel aperture, wher the "suck and blow" combination make it an incredibly efficient set up. The R&D that went into this is not trivial. Trying to better it with a bigger FMIC is not trivial either. FMIC's also result in you having to delete the stock duct to the water and air con heat exchangers, direct from the stock bumper mouth. But sellers never tell you that... All of this is no doubt true. I for one believe it entirely and am also sure that Mr T researched this topic exhaustively before developing the Supra. BUT... How many owners of a MkIV have ever actually got to the stage where their car has overheated or otherwise failed to perform properly as a result of fitting a FMIC in place of a stock (or aftermarket) SMIC? I would guess not many, especially given that even those of us running a lot more power than standard use big FMICs - often with lottle or no actual ducting - and have no issues either. Just my two pence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 All of this is no doubt true. I for one believe it entirely and am also sure that Mr T researched this topic exhaustively before developing the Supra. BUT... How many owners of a MkIV have ever actually got to the stage where their car has overheated or otherwise failed to perform properly as a result of fitting a FMIC in place of a stock (or aftermarket) SMIC? I would guess not many, especially given that even those of us running a lot more power than standard use big FMICs - often with lottle or no actual ducting - and have no issues either. Just my two pence. Good point to consider really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveR Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Good point to consider really Also, clearly this: ...often with lottle or no actual ducting... ...should've read "little." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) I went with a FMIC when I had the car and did notice a big improvement.....however looking back I expect this to be due to my old SMIC being knackered and anything else being an improvement no matter what route I went down. I went with the FMIC because of the deal I got on a Blitz unit that I couldn't really turn down. Given what has already been mentioned, trying to better Toyotas excellent setup with a FMIC.....the SMIC is probably the better option as it utilising whats already there. One thing I would say is upgrage the intake pipes if you go down the SM route as thats where I noticed the biggest change. The old silicone pipes almost felt like they started to swell when pressure started to build where as the metal pipes stopped this and made the car feel a lot more positive on boost Edited May 31, 2013 by mikeyb10supra (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I previously commented with some technical data I have collected on my eBay intercooler. No one else seem's to have any technical information on the use of FMIC that are on the market for the mkiv at the moment. The fact that no one replied makes me think no one else has any, or no one really cares. For me, function over brand name makes sense. Maybe a more expensive unit flows better, but if it completes the objective what does a 1000bhp intercooler have use to a little NA-t or small single to most people? Anyway, here's my post. My eBay intercooler works perfectly. I've had 60°+ on full boost (1.2bar) and it's kept the output temperatures at ambient just as low as driving on cruise. I can't actually find a point where the intercooler doesn't give stable output. I've air intake sensors at both points of the intercooler. Without technical data to prove otherwise I would buy a cheaper unit/kit which is proven to work, until you find your power limitations require an upgrade. From all 11 repies no one's actually given any technical information about what improvements can be found using either intercooler. It would be great to actually compare the effective cooling from different intercoolers. Maybe for 600bhp I'll find flow limitations or even too much heat. But at 417bhp, I have no problems at all, not even a couple degree's of creep at full rpm / boost, so it's definitely got some performance life in it after my current bhp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 All of this is no doubt true. I for one believe it entirely and am also sure that Mr T researched this topic exhaustively before developing the Supra. BUT... How many owners of a MkIV have ever actually got to the stage where their car has overheated or otherwise failed to perform properly as a result of fitting a FMIC in place of a stock (or aftermarket) SMIC? I would guess not many, especially given that even those of us running a lot more power than standard use big FMICs - often with lottle or no actual ducting - and have no issues either. If you search back through here and SupraForums you will find that as a result of installing an FMIC many owners also had to install a larger radiator, like the Koyo, Fluidyne etc to negate the exact issue you are talking about I would also like to add that I myself have run the CW SMIC with stock ducting on my track car, single turbo running 550hp without any heat issues with lap after lap of full on abuse, not the odd blast up and open road, another member on here TLicense also with the same setup on his twin Blitz turbo kit was dyno`ed over 600hp. Dont get me wrong, I am not knocking an FMIC as when its done properly with all supporting mods like proper ducting, upgraded PS cooler and rad they are very effective, but how many people do this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 I previously commented with some technical data I have collected on my eBay intercooler. No one else seem's to have any technical information on the use of FMIC that are on the market for the mkiv at the moment. The fact that no one replied makes me think no one else has any, or no one really cares. For me, function over brand name makes sense. Maybe a more expensive unit flows better, but if it completes the objective what does a 1000bhp intercooler have use to a little NA-t or small single to most people? Anyway, here's my post. What was the intercooler you used? Was it a "eBays own" as such? I'm cautious of going to eBay for my parts as its so strongly recommended to stay away. Would be nice if someone else does actually have some technical data to post up so I can make a well informed decision as to what I think will be best for my needs and car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 What was the intercooler you used? Was it a "eBays own" as such? I'm cautious of going to eBay for my parts as its so strongly recommended to stay away. Would be nice if someone else does actually have some technical data to post up so I can make a well informed decision as to what I think will be best for my needs and car I bought an eBay kit and it came included. I just bought a universal kit off there mate, wasn't branded. Without comparing the flow, and understanding the output from an engine in cubic feet per minute to find the hp value at which flow would be limited, it would be hard to compare the reduction in flow rate against the reduction in flow of a cheaper intercooler than a better one. I only have data against my setup with the temperature drop I have, so I can't comment on anything else. Though I don't have any rise in temperature, I would expect I could run my with a safe output of 450hp as there is no creep of temperature whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveR Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 If you search back through here and SupraForums you will find that as a result of installing an FMIC many owners also had to install a larger radiator, like the Koyo, Fluidyne etc to negate the exact issue you are talking about I would also like to add that I myself have run the CW SMIC with stock ducting on my track car, single turbo running 550hp without any heat issues with lap after lap of full on abuse, not the odd blast up and open road, another member on here TLicense also with the same setup on his twin Blitz turbo kit was dyno`ed over 600hp. Dont get me wrong, I am not knocking an FMIC as when its done properly with all supporting mods like proper ducting, upgraded PS cooler and rad they are very effective, but how many people do this... Fair play. I HAVE, I confess, upgraded to a SRD alloy rad' as well (also an oil cooler & upgraded PAS cooler), but more due to the original stock one cracking during a track day than a noticeable increase in engine temps, etc. I'm not knocking a SMIC, by the way, but let's face it: a FMIC looks WAY cooler! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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