Help - valve stem seals? Or turbo oil seals?

[listy]

JSpec NA-TT 5 speed

 

Whilst queuing for JapFest, Marco79 told me I was getting puffs of blue smoke as I was pulling off each time.

 

Now, I'm wondering if it is the valve stem seals, or the turbo oil seals.

 

My oil was rather low on the way back, which i found out after the car had a couple of jolts as the second turbo should have kicked in, to the point where I had to top it up, and after that all seemed fine again.

 

Is there any way of diagnosing which it is, without pulling everything apart?

[mellonman]

If it was each time it would be turbo seal, valve seals you be just first start up where oil can leak down passed them

[Swampy442]

As above, smoke at hot idle is generally turbine oil seals

[Chris Bailey]

Blue smoke on pull away = Turbo seals

 

Blue smoke on start up = Valve stem seals

[listy]

So just by pulling off in 1st gear, without the turbos kicking in, still points towards turbo seals? I dont notice any smoke whilst driving, and Marco said it was just as i pulled off.

 

If it is turbo oil seals, i suppose thats good news well, its not, but better than valve stem oil seals

 

Are they easy to replace? Or am I better off getting a pair of turbos second hand? I just don't want the same to happen later on, and it be a waste of money.

 

Is there a way to tell for sure the seals are dead without taking the hot side apart? Or am I going to have to bite the bullet and remove the turbos?

Edited May 13, 2013 by listy (see edit history)

[marc_p]

Sounds like VSS to me, mine would always smoke in traffic each time I pulled off, does it smoke on start up?

[marc_p]

Oh and I did the VSS myself, it's not that hard

[Benjy]

Sounds like VSS to me, mine would always smoke in traffic each time I pulled off, does it smoke on start up?

 

What he said.

[listy]

Sounds like VSS to me, mine would always smoke in traffic each time I pulled off, does it smoke on start up?

 

Not all the time, generally after its been raining or when its been cold out (moisture in the exhaust?) but that's been a lot lately, so hard to tell

 

This is why I've asked if there is a sure fire way of telling if he turbo oil seals are dead, without removing it all

[Swampy442]

Yeah, get the car hot, let it idle for a couple of minutes or so and check for smoke. If it doesnt smoke, give it a little rev

[Benjy]

Have a look in the intercooler pipework and see how much oil's in them. It there's a dribble, I'd say that's pretty normal. If there's a shed load, then the tubby seals are gone.

[listy]

Yeah, get the car hot, let it idle for a couple of minutes or so and check for smoke. If it doesnt smoke, give it a little rev

 

I'll try that cheers mate. So if it smokes with a little throttle blip, that would point towards which one? Some are saying VSS and others turbo seals.

 

Have a look in the intercooler pipework and see how much oil's in them. It there's a dribble, I'd say that's pretty normal. If there's a shed load, then the tubby seals are gone.

 

Well I've got new couplers coming from SFS this week (hopefully) so the pipes will be coming off for a clean anyway. I'll look then

I'm guessing the oil would be sat at the bottom of the pipes nearest the IC itself?

That seems like an easy enough test. Even I can do that

[Benjy]

Take pictures. We'll be able to advise if it's normal or way too much.

[listy]

Take pictures. We'll be able to advise if it's normal or way too much.

 

That was the plan

[Slutters]

Have a look in the intercooler pipework and see how much oil's in them. It there's a dribble, I'd say that's pretty normal. If there's a shed load, then the tubby seals are gone.

 

Not totally correct mate, that's only true if the compressor side is leaking. My Holset was smoking on lift of but that was the turbine seal gone. No oil coming out of the compressor at all as that seal was fine!

[Benjy]

If it's smoking, it's going to have to go through the intercooler.

 

EDIT:

 

I see what you mean. Quite right.

 

One way or the other Jon, it's going through the exhaust. Check the IC, and try the other tests, and then make an educated decision based on that.

[listy]

If it's smoking, it's going to have to go through the intercooler.

 

EDIT:

 

I see what you mean. Quite right.

 

One way or the other Jon, it's going through the exhaust. Check the IC, and try the other tests, and then make an educated decision based on that.

 

Educated decision.....from me?

 

I'll go through the suggested tests, and then post my findings. It won't be until the weekend, as I just don't have the heart right now to do it

 

To be honest, with everything that has happened with this supra since I've had it, I've been tempted to get rid of it, and get another one, but then common sense kicks in At least its another thing one way or another, that I know is fixed.

[listy]

Would I get an inkling if its the turbine seals if there is oil in the down pipe? Would it be worth taking the exhaust off to check?

[Nic]

Would I get an inkling if its the turbine seals if there is oil in the down pipe? Would it be worth taking the exhaust off to check?

 

If the turbo seals are worn the oil will be burnt off in the exhaust. Get someone to follow you, if it is the turbo seals you'll see a puff of blue smoke from the exhaust when you change gear whilst accelerating.

[Slutters]

Would I get an inkling if its the turbine seals if there is oil in the down pipe? Would it be worth taking the exhaust off to check?

 

I did that with my old Uno Turbo! Smoked when it was on idle....waited till it smoked. Turned it off, then took off the turbo, you could see oil in the downpipe and around the turbine wheel but none in the manifold. Happy days back then!

[listy]

If the turbo seals are worn the oil will be burnt off in the exhaust. Get someone to follow you, if it is the turbo seals you'll see a puff of blue smoke from the exhaust when you change gear whilst accelerating.

 

That's what I had when pulling off in the JapFest queue.

On the way back to Devon, I had Chris (stickygecko) behind me, he said he didn't see anything out of the ordinary

 

It all seems to be contradicting itself

[Benjy]

Educated decision.....from me?

 

I'll go through the suggested tests, and then post my findings. It won't be until the weekend, as I just don't have the heart right now to do it

 

To be honest, with everything that has happened with this supra since I've had it, I've been tempted to get rid of it, and get another one, but then common sense kicks in At least its another thing one way or another, that I know is fixed.

 

If it is turbo's mate I've got a good set of J-spec twins that have done about 60k should you require them.

[listy]

I did that with my old Uno Turbo! Smoked when it was on idle....waited till it smoked. Turned it off, then took off the turbo, you could see oil in the downpipe and around the turbine wheel but none in the manifold. Happy days back then!

 

That's what I'm thinking. If I remove the exhaust, let it warm up, then as soon as some smoke appears, turn it off and quickly get a clean rag up the down pipe and see what comes out on it.

[Swampy442]

I'll try that cheers mate. So if it smokes with a little throttle blip, that would point towards which one? Some are saying VSS and others turbo seals.

 

If it smokes with no throttle after idling for a while, thats turbine oil seals, the little blip is just to increase the exhaust flow. If the VSS were bad enough to smoke while driving you'd expect a good size cloud of smoke when cold starting

[Swampy442]

That's what I'm thinking. If I remove the exhaust, let it warm up, then as soon as some smoke appears, turn it off and quickly get a clean rag up the down pipe and see what comes out on it.

 

It wont be that much oil mate. I had a Soarer with a shot seal, the exhaust housing was damp with oil, not tons. It takes a little oil to make a lot of smoke.