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Quite a shocking bit of info...


Gazboy

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I was bored at work so I've read it. Don't bother, it's just a history of what happened on Sept 11th. It's meant to be promoting a 'our government agencies failed to react' approach, but apart from Bush's dodgy staying at the school to carry on reading with the schoolkids bit it actually reads like people reacted quite quickly and reasonably given the circumstances they were faced with. This was a unique situation that no amount of training was going to prepare people for - who would have thought of training people to handle two hijacked planes flying into skyscrapers before Sept 11th?

 

It's full of info that we can't be sure of, some daft stuff (example: 9:10 Around this time, the head of the National Security Agency - the primary early-warning intelligence service for the U.S. - learns that a second airplane has hit the World Trade Centers and that America is under attack... not from a fancy satellite monitor, or a secure COM-SIG-INT intercept, but from watching CNN - why would the NSA be monitoring the World Trade Centre with a satellite on the morning of Sept 11th? And what exactly are you going to learn from looking at the World Trade Centre plane crash from a satellite? It's not like it's going to give you early-warning of another aircraft about to crash into it) and the whole thing has an obvious anti-government, anti-Bush slant to it while promoting the traditional 'God Bless America' sentiment.

 

 

Have to say that I find it fascinating how America has responded to Sept 11th. In Europe we're so much more used to devastation by war and terrorism that we just don't react in this way. America seems to have this 'How dare they attack us, it's an outrage' and Europeans are more like 'Yeah... this sort of thing happens now and then, there we go'.

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America seems to have this 'How dare they attack us, it's an outrage' and Europeans are more like 'Yeah... this sort of thing happens now and then, there we go'.

 

That's what 30 years of the IRA does to you. Oh, and about 2000 years of warfare, civil unrest, blah blah blah. The American identity is sufficently young that it hasn't had that kind of background. Their only previous homeland attack was probably Pearl Harbour, and thats thousands of miles away from America 'proper'. (Feel free to correct - American history really doesn't rate in my topics of interest!)

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America seems to have this 'How dare they attack us, it's an outrage' and Europeans are more like 'Yeah... this sort of thing happens now and then, there we go'.

 

Yep that always used to piss me off about the U.S. I remember a news report once when a British Tourist got shot in his hire car in Miami..obviously the British Press went over to follow the story...one British Journalist asked some official there 'How can you be sure that British Tourists can be safe in the future?' and he replied something like..'Well we are more concerned for our own citizens first' which I can understand, but not the kind of thing you say on camera right after and incident of this kind.

 

The other thing that annoyed me was the first time I ever travelled to the states...when the plane landed in the U.S(a knackered out TWA) all the U.S. citizens clapped..when It landed at Gatwick...I 'clapped' as I thought this was normal...but I was the only one clapping.

 

I asked someone once why do Americans clap when their U.S. plane lands and I was told its becuase they are celebrating that the plane didn't crash.

:p

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I never knew that was why they clapped- I thought it was a "nice landing mate" type thing....

 

That had crossed my mind too...but...:

dosn't explain the landing at Gatwick which was a very good one on the return flight (and no-one clapped)...I think its a patriotic thing personally!!!

 

Anyone else have any ideas?

:innocent:

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Have to say that I find it fascinating how America has responded to Sept 11th. In Europe we're so much more used to devastation by war and terrorism that we just don't react in this way. America seems to have this 'How dare they attack us, it's an outrage' and Europeans are more like 'Yeah... this sort of thing happens now and then, there we go'.

 

 

Really, When was the last time over 3000 people were killed in one fell swoop in Europe in your lifetime ?

 

I am quite certain that all the British and European families and friends who lost loved ones in the WTC attack feel devastated and outraged. Or are you telling me because they are British and/or European they would take the line that stuff like this happens all the time. I think not.

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That had crossed my mind too...but...:

dosn't explain the landing at Gatwick which was a very good one on the return flight (and no-one clapped)...I think its a patriotic thing personally!!!

 

Anyone else have any ideas?

:innocent:

 

Prepare for yank defending the homeland.... (am I the only American in our club?)

 

Americans clap when they land back in the U.S. for two reasons:

 

A.) They're happy to be back in the great nation that the U.S. can be.

- patriotism

 

B.) It was also a good landing. (We do this on my jet also)

 

"So next time a yank forum is dishing out the 'we saved your asses in ww2' line."

 

- not a good way to make friends but I've heard it come up in very heated discussions filled with Anti-U.S. reteric when the American gets backed into a corner. A sad and pitiful, yet powerful statement meant to be hurtful, although somewhat containing facts. I've said it a thousand times, I'll always hold England as our greatest allies.

 

It was by far the worst act of terrorism (that I know of) in history. I for one an happy the country was able to come together in a time of disaster, but am also sick of hearing about these "born-again Americans".

 

There is renewed support for our troops (something I'm obviously thankful for), but where were all these people during Vietnam and during so many other instances in which thousands of American soldiers have died due to terrorist attacks; USS Kole, Saudi Kobar Towers attack, Marine Barracks Beirut.

 

rant over, feel free to retort.

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I was thinking more about how in Europe we are more used to attacks on the homeland (such as WWII bombing, Yugoslavia war, and terrorism (IRA, ETA, Badar Meinhof, etc, )) and so it's something we are more used to dealing with, it's almost part of our collective makeup. America has never experienced that kind of attack and so their reaction to it was interesting to watch. The scale of Sept 11th comes into the equation too of course, but there were similar reactions to the Oklahoma bombing where Americans apparently struggled to comprehend an American blowing up fellow Americans - again in Europe we are more used to this and so our reaction is different.

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SUMMARY:

 

1. Some planes flew into an office tower or two.

2. People got upset for a while.

3. People then realised they could all blame invisible enemies.

4. This allowed the governement to raise that ailing DOD/FBI/CIA budget that had been reduced somewhat since the Ruskies had made friends.

5. The years of touchy feely and ethnic minority pampering were over !

 

GOD BLESS THE AMERICAN REICH !

 

(ok ok its just tongue in cheek :) )

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Prepare for yank defending the homeland.... (am I the only American in our club?)

 

Nope, I am as well :) and from New York.

I think the way American acted on 9/11 was only natural, we're not used to something of that scale happening in our country (and our country is much younger than most)...so of course we reacted the way we did.

 

 

As for the clapping on a landing, to me it's more of a "yay! We made it home safe and it was a good flight, no turbulance, etc". I remember they used to do that on the flights when I was little going to NY to Florida, and NY to Puerto Rico. I'm flying all the time now as an adult for work and personal reasons, and no one ever claps anymore. Maybe it's a changing thing, or maybe people just don't applaud where I've been to in the States. I like the clapping, it's a cool way to say "thanks for a great flight". But that's just me.

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Quick point on the WWII comments:

 

Yes, the war could have ended much differently if the US had not intervened.

However, do not think it was out of the goodness of their hearts. We owe them large amounts of money from the war. And we are still paying them. Last year the UK paid 145 million dollars to the US for WWII aid. This year we will be paying 142 million.

 

The total amount that the UK has/is repaying to the US is over 4 trillion (yes, 4,000,000,000) dollars.

 

There is some good news - I think the last payment will be completed next year - some 60 years later!

 

I believe many other countries are still paying similar amounts as part of the US Lend-Lease agreements.

 

Source: http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200102/cmhansrd/vo020228/text/20228w04.htm

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Yes Jake. A trillion would be a thousand billion, so..

 

4,000,000,000,000 :eek:

 

Going back to the topic.. you cant really compare the IRA attacks we've had to endure to that of 9/11. Their cause was civil rights/unified Ireland etc, these guys who attacked the US just basically wanted to kill as many people as they could, attacking some of the icons of the US in the process. Im sure if we had 3k people killed in similar acts we'd feel exactly the same.

 

They're an extremely patroitic people, sometimes I think its too much, but I respect how/why they feel like that and wish people in this country felt like that too sometimes.

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Sorry! Quick aside again :offtopic: - I had a look at this one, 'cos it's the sort of anal thing I do! :no:

 

Billions, trillions appear to differ in the UK and US:

 

US Billion: 1,000,000,000

UK Billion: 1,000,000,000,000

US Trillion: 1,000,000,000,000

UK Trillion: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000

US Quintillion: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000

UK Quintillion: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

 

Even I got bored at that point.

 

And, interestingly (hahaha) enough - the US is actually abysmally in debt at the moment to the tune of:

 

$7,925,741,499,921.91

 

Nearly 8 billion (8 trillion US :p ) dollars.

 

(Source: http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm)

 

Go figure!!! :D :D

 

I guess in a way, we're helping them pay back their national debt in return for their assistance in WW2. It's all good :) :grouphug:

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I thought in the UK its a thousand million, and in the US its a million/million = a billion?! Stupid shat :D

 

 

I was taught in school that 1m x 1m = 1bn. Which confused the hell out of me when I kept reading that $1,300,000,000 was $1.3bn in all the newspapers.

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