New power steering cooler and ducting fitted. Opinions please.

[mattdavies]

I think its function over form, but to make it a little more aesthetically pleasing i would cut the scoop down so its flush and paint it black along with painting the cooler black

[pedrosixfour]

I think its function over form, but to make it a little more aesthetically pleasing i would cut the scoop down so its flush and paint it black along with painting the cooler black

 

It has been, shall we say, revised.

 

It's not flush, it is A LOT tidier, but the kid in me is also satisfied.

 

And as he is the reason I own the feckin' car in the first place I think he deserves some input.

 

I'd post pictures but what good would it do?

[mattdavies]

I wanna see !!

[Noz]

Measure the temp's without the scoop, and with.

 

Noting the values and compaing would be a much better option as clearly the requirement for a drop in temps would over ride just location it in the typical locations.

 

People can't argue the numbers.

[Digsy]

We can see how the air gets into the cooler. Can it get out from the back just as easily?

[pedrosixfour]

I wanna see !!

 

No.

 

Measure the temp's without the scoop, and with.

 

Noting the values and compaing would be a much better option as clearly the requirement for a drop in temps would over ride just location it in the typical locations.

 

People can't argue the numbers.

 

Double no!

 

It is stuck to the front bumper at this stage mate so I'm afraid that ship has sailed.

 

We can see how the air gets into the cooler. Can it get out from the back just as easily?

 

The radiator overflow tank and that piece of plastic panelling that resided in that area are now gone Digsy, the air leaving the cooler is uninterupted until it hits the radiator 170mm further back.

 

I figured the addition of the ps cooler in that location, along with the additional cut-out in the bumper wouldn't effect the radiator's performance as there is air flowing now where air never really flowed before.

 

Novice interpretation and destruction of what Toyota spent millions developing, I know.

[pedrosixfour]

I wanna see !!

 

Sod it, why not.

 

Vent as it is now is as it will stay, until I decide otherwise. It still needs painting, obviously.

 

Laugh if you want, it certainly puts a smile on my face.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jagman]

Why so arguementative?

 

Some race cars have no power steering, yes. Some also don't have a brake servo, should I remove mine too?

 

But race cars usually come with a race car driver, that type of person who through years of training and preparation is now so physically tuned they are capable of operating such a machine at the ragged edge with little or no assistance on the controls. These people aren't employed for their good looks. If my head was subjected to a force of 4g I would break my neck, these people can withstand that assault for hours at a time, heavy steering is not something they are going to complain about. Therefore its a system the manufacturers can ignore in the design.

 

But to continue with that particular arguement the above only seems to cover a certain type of racing, once you venture into anything that uses production based vehicles as the starting point I think you'll find that power steering becomes crucial to performance. I don't know if you've watched much rallying but on several occasions I seen drivers comment that they lost a lot of time during a particular stage because the power steering failed. Why don't they simply build a car without the system onboard? I don't know, go ask them if you are that keen to get to the root of all of this.

 

I've never claimed to be a good track driver, I enjoy it, but thats different. I usually need to correct my line into a corner, taking a second and possibly even a third bite of the cherry to find the correct entry point, then missing it completely anyway because my brain can't get the signal to my hands quick enough. When I do finally turn in I can usually hear the overloaded front tyres complain about what they are being asked to do as I find my foot still firmly planted on the brake and all the car wants to do is let its momentum carry it on into the gravel traps so it can have a little rest. Once the car begins to follow the road again my right foot gets all giddy and stamps on the accelerator which leads to the rear trying to over take the front, if I'm quick enough I can usually catch this with the front wheels, balancing a small slide at the rear with furious corrective steering to keep the front...well, in front.

 

Now are you seriously going to sit there and tell me that that type of driving won't adversely affect the fluid in the system which is connected to the big round thing in front of me that I am sawing away at? Steering is used constanly on the road, even a straight one to counter undulations, I accept that, but it would never be the 3/4 lock I've had to apply to the wheel to keep from eating armco now would it?

 

I'm not the first person on this forum to fit a power steering cooler, I might be a tight bastard but I'm sure the others would correct any problem in their lines or pump before trying to "band-aid" the problem with a cooler.

 

Thats all I'm going to say on the matter, I've too much work to do on the car before its next track outing to spend anymore time defending what I've done to it so far.

 

Christ, I mean wait until you see what else I have planned.

 

Well you did ask for an opinion ?

Had you considered that ATF boils at 315 degrees c that's bloody hot!!

Why do you think PAS coolers are fitted ? It's because if you heat the fluid above its normal 100 or so degrees , it degrades the seals in the steering rack and you could lose steering all together .

It's cheaper to fit a simple cooler than use larger pumps or lines and racks and very compact

Could you imagine the claims if any car manufacturer made any steering system even close to failing when loaded?

I think most people can appreciate that steering loads are heavier at low speeds not high , especially if they have driven cars with no PAS

[pedrosixfour]

Well you did ask for an opinion ?

 

And if you took the time to read my opening post properly you would realise that I only wanted an opinion on the ducting, nothing else.

 

And why am I the only one to have the benefit of your limitless knowledge?

 

Paul Whiffin stated he cooked his ps fluid at Snetterton and fitted a cooler to stop it from happening again.

 

Where were you then eh?

 

I go to the track, I do a 20 minute stint, my fluid gets hot (maybe not boiling, as I've never heard the tell-tale noises from the system I assume would be present to indicate it has boiled). I pull back into the pits and open my bonnet, the top of my reservoir is wet. I wipe it down, check the level, top up if necessary and go back out. Only to be met with the same damp reservoir on my return.

 

If a cooler can help prevent the constant over expansion of my fluid due to being unable to dissapate heat quick enough on its own then what is the problem?

 

Seriously fella, I appreciate the time you've taken to post and I have no doubt that your knowledge of all things greatly surpasses mine.

 

But the cooler is now fitted and will remain so until I decide otherwise.

 

Please deal with it and move on.

 

Thanks.

[Guest Nicholas]

Sod it, why not.

 

Vent as it is now is as it will stay, until I decide otherwise. It still needs painting, obviously.

 

Laugh if you want, it certainly puts a smile on my face.

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=166115&d=1363621952

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=166116&d=1363621952

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=166117&d=1363621952

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=166118&d=1363621952

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=166119&d=1363621952

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=166120&d=1363622459

 

Looks much better than the first post!

[pedrosixfour]

Looks much better than the first post!

 

Cheers.

 

Heres a few of it lightly dusted with a bit of black, just to get a clearer idea.

 

 

 

 

 

And here is my other "budget mod"

 

I actually painted a vent onto the wing, it looks like a hole but, get this, I saved myself the price of a whole cutting disk and seeing as I already had the can of paint shaken up....

 

 

I am unstoppable to be honest, I may even think about applying for trader status.

[Kaan W]

I dont think the air duct looks that bad to be honest but I would use the cooler for something like engine oil.

 

As for the sprayed on vents, why dont you paint some coolers there

[pedrosixfour]

I dont think the air duct looks that bad to be honest but I would use the cooler for something like engine oil.

 

As for the sprayed on vents, why dont you paint some coolers there

 

Oil cooler is positioned behind the passanger side duct, intercooler is in the driver side duct and the radiator has whatever you want to call the big mouth at the front.

 

I did try painting coolers on but my 1 inch brush won't allow me to get the fin detail just right.

[spikedjack]

i'd probably just have stuck it in the huge mouth of the bumper in front of the rad.

[pedrosixfour]

i'd probably just have stuck it in the huge mouth of the bumper in front of the rad.

 

You really need to let you imagination off the leash every once in a while.

 

Look at the entertainment it can offer with just a poxy sheet of tin!

 

At least I think it's tin.

[spikedjack]

You really need to let you imagination off the leash every once in a while.

 

Look at the entertainment it can offer with just a poxy sheet of tin!

 

At least I think it's tin.

 

Hadnt looked at this page, looks loads better with it cut down and painted black

[pedrosixfour]

Hadnt looked at this page, looks loads better with it cut down and painted black

 

Now that sounds like a potential happy customer, send your bumper over and I'll do something similar for an obscene amount of money.

 

I'll start flattening out the bean cans straight away.

 

Batchelor's or Heinz mate?

 

You get what you pay for.

[spikedjack]

Now that sounds like a potential happy customer, send your bumper over and I'll do something similar for an obscene amount of money.

 

I'll start flattening out the bean cans straight away.

 

Batchelor's or Heinz mate?

 

You get what you pay for.

 

If it was a pure track car then fair play (heinz) . For my road car, you have no chance

[listy]

I'd maybe chuck some black mesh in there, but other than that, I think it looks good. Different, but with a purpose

[pedrosixfour]

If it was a pure track car then fair play (heinz) . For my road car, you have no chance

 

Never a doubt in my mind mate.

 

I'd maybe chuck some black mesh in there, but other than that, I think it looks good. Different, but with a purpose

 

Cheers fella, but no mesh though, I purposely cut the flap in the bumper like that so mesh wouldn't be needed to cover the hole.

 

If the cooler get a rap so be it, it could just as easily be the radiator or either of the other coolers that takes the hit as none of those are covered either.

[dr_jekyll]

function over form every time, its a track car, who cares what it looks like, its what it goes like thats important. show and shine boys should stay away from the drivers threads!

[jagman]

"If a cooler can help prevent the constant over expansion of my fluid due to being unable to dissapate heat quick enough on its own then what is the problem?"

 

As you asked : the problem is that ATF fluid has an operational range of temperatures , it can be overcooled .

The fluids viscosity changes with temperature and it expands with temperature , hence the cold and hot levels in the reservoir .If overcooled the steering can lose feel or get a "spongy" type of feedback , not what you want if racing .

The simplest "fix" is to replace the fluid with a more thermally stable fluid .- think redline do some fluid

Over flowing of the reservoir can also be due other problems such as foaming fluid or micro bubbles

Unfortunately my knowledge is not unlimited , but 35 years working with far more complex hydraulic systems does help somewhat - take it or leave it -

[pedrosixfour]

"If a cooler can help prevent the constant over expansion of my fluid due to being unable to dissapate heat quick enough on its own then what is the problem?"

 

As you asked : the problem is that ATF fluid has an operational range of temperatures , it can be overcooled .

The fluids viscosity changes with temperature and it expands with temperature , hence the cold and hot levels in the reservoir .If overcooled the steering can lose feel or get a "spongy" type of feedback , not what you want if racing .

The simplest "fix" is to replace the fluid with a more thermally stable fluid .- think redline do some fluid

Over flowing of the reservoir can also be due other problems such as foaming fluid or micro bubbles

Unfortunately my knowledge is not unlimited , but 35 years working with far more complex hydraulic systems does help somewhat - take it or leave it -

 

I'll take all of that with thanks as it is very useful information.

 

Micro bubbles - unfortunately that is a condition I am not completely unfamiliar with and I may investigate the cause, I know my pump can be a little vocal at times but the steering is free of any type of notchy-ness regardless for oil temperature, engine speed or wheel speed.

 

But surely micro bubbles would not account for the "well done" aroma I was getting from my old fluid along with its blackened appearance?

 

And please feel free to ignore this post as I'm not entirely sure I deserve anymore of your time or expertise after my earlier petulance.

 

I was feeling a little singled out for criticism, I realise that was not the case and I would like to apologise here and now for my hostility towards you.

[pedrosixfour]

function over form every time, its a track car, who cares what it looks like, its what it goes like thats important. show and shine boys should stay away from the drivers threads!

 

Still, you didn't vote to keep looking like it was, now did ya??

[jagman]

These are now old cars and so not everything works as it should , power steering is one of those areas that seldom get tested , or looked at unless they go wrong

The steering is weighted versus speed , the faster you go the less pressure is provided ( less heat) , stationary , with max load and engine at idle the maximum pressure is provided - testing should be done with warm fluid so , a few left/ right turns while stopped brings up the temp

First thing to look at is the filter in the reservoir tank , it's a lump of steel wool , these block and prevent fluid flow to pump , they also hold crud that can soon discolour the new fluid .

Remove the reservoir , fill with a solvent , shake and flush - a few times

Once refitted and clean fluid used , check the reservoir for bubbles , and turn L/R and see if the level drops , air is compressible , fluid is not . So under load turning fluid drop means air

Next check the idle up , ( at idle , with steering load maximum , the engine could stall , so a valve is used to add air past the throttle)

You can pinch the rubber pipe on the intake and see if idle moves

Now you are looking at the pump and the control valves on the rack tower and soft hoses/ leaks

Testing the high pressure needs a guage plumbed in and if a garage were to do this the cost would probably exceed the price of getting a chris wilson returned pump !!

Lastly the rack , if the control valve is worn or lines blocked , you can get excess return fluid , rather than strip / reassemble , it's probably best to get a recon one with warranty - probably special tool needed and pressure checking needed