Digsy Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Right-ho. As a result of the "transmission losses" thread, I'd like to try to get some kind of a feel for what the real losses through the Supra drivetrain are. For this I will need input from people who have run their car on a rolling road or hub dyno AND IN THE SAME STATE OF TUNE done a 1/4 mile timed run, with a recorded trap speed. This is for measured data only, so no speculation, please! To make my life easy, please respond in the "cut and paste" method used in the gathering type of threads. You will need to specify the following: Transmisison type. 1/4 mile time 1/4 mile trap speed Intermediate times and speeds. "Measured" horsepower. State whether this is rear wheel, hub, or a calculation of flywheel based on either. Out-and-out estimates are meaningless for the purposes of this survey. I'm hoping we can get some kind of a trend of driveline losses versus power to use in future calcs. Here's Chis's car as your starter for ten: Transmisison type: 6sp manual 1/4 mile time: 12.71 1/4 mile trap speed: 123mph "Measured" horsepower: 623 (estimated @ flywheel) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 -- Jake -- Transmisison type: 4sp Auto (not Tiptronic) ¼ mile time: 13.340 (Santa Pod) ¼ mile trap speed: 116.27mph (Santa Pod) "Measured" horsepower: 350.5 RHHP (Thor Racing) "Measured" horsepower: 301.9 RWHP (Surrey Rolling Road) EDIT TO ADD @ DIGSY'S REQUEST : JohnK ==================== Jake 2.378 ------ 60ft ------- 2.624 6.078 ----- 330ft ------- 6.374 8.971 ----- 1/8 ET ------ 9.116 87.18 ----- 1/8MPH ------ 90.96 11.468 ---- 1000ft ----- 11.355 13.701 ---- 1/4 ET ----- 13.340 103.94 ---- 1/4 MPH ---- 116.27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 14.1 @ 103 mph or 14.3 @ 105?! (dunno what you wanna take from that) 6 speed Manual 265 @ rear wheels (G-Force Ayelsbury) 309 @ hubs (Thor) EDIT TO ADD @ DIGSY'S REQUEST : Bobbeh ========= 2.356----- 60ft 6.217--- 330ft 9.311--- 1/8 ET 80.68 ----- 1/8MPH 11.892 ---- 1000ft 14.160 ---- 1/4 ET 103.66 ---- 1/4 MPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Digsy - are you after the best trap speed or the best 1/4 time? As the trap speed is supposed to be the indicator of power... And my best is 129 at 12.89s -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 Digsy - are you after the best trap speed or the best 1/4 time? As the trap speed is supposed to be the indicator of power... And my best is 129 at 12.89s -IanWhatever you feel happiest posting up, I guess. Unfortunately, the maths is coming apart around my ears at the moment. I always knew that assuming acceleration to be linear over the 1/4 mile would introduce an error, but unfortunately the error is way too large. It must have been pure coincidence that it worked for your other 1/4 mile run. The figures that you just posted don't work, though. Balls I need to find a way of getting the residual acceleration as the car crosses the line. I might be able to get it if people post up their intermediate times, as you get at Pod, but I'm guessing that not everyone will have these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 HOLD UP A SECOND I've just realised that I'm going to be able to do a lot more with this data if you include intermediate times. If you have them, please edit your original post toinclude them. If no, please post anyway - it'll make an interesting database. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Fastest cars will be geared for a low top speed, so they get to that speed quicker but cross the line at a slower speed than the losing car! That's gonna be a PITA to calculate without massive errors I'm afraid!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 Fastest cars will be geared for a low top speed, so they get to that speed quicker but cross the line at a slower speed than the losing car! That's gonna be a PITA to calculate without massive errors I'm afraid!! That's why I need to be able to accurately work out how much the car is still accelerating by when it crosses the line, as well as the trap speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Are you not worried about varying conditions as well? Surely the fact that driving up a 1/4 mile strip at 100 odd mph is going to create vastly different inlet air than a big fan stuck in the front of your car at a dyno? Or will the environmental differences not cause enough of a change to worry about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Transmisison type: 6sp manual http://homepage.ntlworld.com/colin.lewarn/timeslip.jpg The above measured at santa pod "Measured" horsepower: 292 bhp (at the wheels)(powerstation) Stock sized wheels (255/40/17) 25 psi pressure I change up at the red line in each gear and go over the line in 4th gear just before the rev limit. Stock body no polystyrene bits or spare wheel Driver weight 63 kg enough info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 Are you not worried about varying conditions as well? Surely the fact that driving up a 1/4 mile strip at 100 odd mph is going to create vastly different inlet air than a big fan stuck in the front of your car at a dyno? Or will the environmental differences not cause enough of a change to worry about? Yeah, they will play a part, but I'm still interested to see how this pans out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Auto 1/4 mile 13.5s 1/4 terminal 108mph estimated 360-380bhp @ the fly, prob 300 @ the wheels/hubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 estimated 360-380bhp @ the fly, prob 300 @ the wheels/hubs Is that estimated from a RW or hub figure? I need it to be based on something physically measured. And do you have any intermedtaie times or speeds for the 1/4 mile run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Sorry Digsy thats a guess at the bhp from the mods I have on. I did dyno it when i got it and got 323bhp @ the fly. heres the full time slip 60ft 2.370 330ft 6.066 1/8 ET 8.946 1/8 MPH 85.87 1000ft 11.353 1/4 ET 13.504 1/4 MPH 108.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 Cheers, dude. Keep 'em coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 Transmisison type: 6sp manual http://homepage.ntlworld.com/colin.lewarn/timeslip.jpg The above measured at santa pod "Measured" horsepower: 292 bhp (at the wheels)(powerstation) Col, which of those times is yours? The left or right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Col, which of those times is yours? The left or right?The left hand one. This might help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 Cheers, Jake. Bobbeh already told me Col was on the left. Here's what I have so far, then: From what's been posted I can indeed work out the residual acceleration as the car crosses the line. So far its in the order of 1.5 to 2 m/s^s. Initial acceleration is around the 5 to 6 m/s^2 mark. As you can see, I need both the 1/4 and 1/8 mile times AND speeds for each car. Hopefully when I bang those into the power spreadsheet (which is at work) things will start to make more sense. *EDIT* This is the first time I've ever had to use calculus in the real world. You b*stards Supra 0.25 mile times and accels.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Digsy, you need to amend my info if you're gonna use the 60ft data I supplied you, as that was for the 14.1 time @ 103. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 do you need power figures or can you do without? neve been on dyno, if people asked i always estimate 380-400 hp flywheel SUPRA TT auto 96 11.962 @ 114.17 mph 60 ft 1.730 330 ft 4.964 1/8 et 7.660 1/8 mph 91.11 1000 et 9.924 (stock turbos stock 440cc injectors no boost controller or fuel comp @ 1bar boost) ps to colsoop you not on drag list you want to send me some info and will stick you up on list digsy what you planning on all the numbers ps dont know if this will help, there is a detailed list of supra drag times http://list.to4r.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 ps to colsoop you not on drag list you want to send me some info and will stick you up on list He is actually Mark Dragracing Times For Stock & Hybrid Turbos ... 27. 13.414 @ 110.55 mph Colsoop (6TT) JAP (Santapod) standard 16`s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 He is actually Mark i must need new eyes. thanks. i been up since 555am then worked 12 hours so thats my excuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 Updated with Bobbeh's correct figures. Monkey: I'm trying to do a correlation between dyno figures and performance to see if I can make any sense of the power adjustments that dyno operators apply to their rear wheel figures. Unfortunately this means that I must have a timeslip and a measured dyno power figure, rather than a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Updated with Bobbeh's correct figures. Monkey: I'm trying to do a correlation between dyno figures and performance to see if I can make any sense of the power adjustments that dyno operators apply to their rear wheel figures. Unfortunately this means that I must have a timeslip and a measured dyno power figure, rather than a guess.ok no problem. what about all the differences of same car on different dynos giving different readings. good look on your headache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 I just realised I can add to this. Stock SZ auto 60ft 2.527 330ft 6.975 1/8 ET 10.547 1/8 MPH 70.21 1/4 ET 16.175 1/4 MPH 87.49 163 RWHP (Clive Atthowe) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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