bigbloodyturbo Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Just had my single turbo mapped (syvecs s6) and when I went to pick it up the mapper said he couldn't map it on any higher boost than the WG spring pressure as the ignition was breaking up really bad and even on the WG spring it was missing up top. I assumed this was dodgy coilpacks and agreed to go get it sorted and bring it back. Only issue is that the car runs sweet as a nut EXCEPT the egt's are sitting at 850 in the cruise and at certain light load situations its climbing to 900. I tried it on boost and it went over 1000 and I immediately lifted and took it home. To me the coilpacks seem fine (possibly on their way out) but I think the bigger issue is the high egt's and i don't think dodgy coils are causing it. It's my understanding that the most likely cause is too much ignition retard, my question is would the stock ecu (in my auto setup) be pulling timing for some reason and the syvecs can't control it as its sortoff piggy backed on the stock ecu? I really need a place to start looking if im honest so any help would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee P Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 The stock ecu won't be controlling timing at all the syvecs will be doing it. I would speak to Ryan really but could be down to a number of things. Cam timing can really effect it, has it got uprated cams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbloodyturbo Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 no the cams are stock jdm. The thing is when its off boost its really nice to drive, and at 55-60mph it generally sits at 700 but as soon as you try to accelerate or at certain throttle positions the egt's skyrocket. When I drove home at 70mph the egt sit at a constant 825 celcius and if I accelerate gently into boost it creeps up over 900 and my alarm goes off. Water temp is sitting in the middle although I realise the stock gauge is maybe not the most accurate. The only thing I can think off is the cat temp warning lamp was glowing on and off and when it hit 1000 celcius it stayed on untill i got home and turned it off. My cat sensor is tie-wrapped up out of the way though and I have no cats??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 It looks as though it's doing you a favour, leave it where it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbloodyturbo Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 It looks as though it's doing you a favour, leave it where it is. Not sure I get you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Not sure I get you? My cat sensor is tie-wrapped up out of the way though and I have no cats??? It looks as though it's doing you a favour, leave it where it is. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Where is the sensor located dude? if its in the manifold or in the turbo the temp will be significantly higher than if it were in the DP, sometimes I think no guages is the way to go LOL then you cant be driven mad by them. Or maybe your mapper is crap !!! Ask ryan to take a look at the map or do some logs and send them to him. My egt's were similar with the Arnout manifold and GT35 but we thrashed it all day at Marham and all was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Where is your EGT probe plumbed in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbloodyturbo Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 I mentioned the cat temp sensor as possibly being a reason why the stock ecu would pull timing if it thought the cat's where hotter than they should be. I thought possibly moisture ingress could have caused eroneous readings from the thermocouple that was tie-wrapped up and caused the issue however as Lee says, the syvecs should be controlling ignition. On another note, does syvecs use the stock knock sensors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbloodyturbo Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 egt probe is in the turbine housing just above the flange. The manifold is a cast item (treadstone wannabe). If the gauge wasn't there then the only problem i would have is the ignition break up when its in boost at circa 5-6k but as I can see the egt's going through the roof it's made me panic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee P Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 No it doesn't you should have a Bosch knock sensor. Who has fitted and mapped this syvecs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbloodyturbo Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 No it doesn't you should have a Bosch knock sensor. Who has fitted and mapped this syvecs? Local place in Aberdeen that I didn't want to use but the car was there and I got sent offshore and couldn't go and collect the car to take it elsewhere(as planned), I got back from Norway the other day and the car was mapped already and i was told I could go and collect it and this is the problem I now have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 If you moved that sensor to the DP you would have much lower readings, those temps are pretty much what ive seen before on a cast manifold and sensor location, the sensors located in the DP are in the wrong place they are only useful for tuning etc but not for reading true manifold temp, ideally there should be 6, 1 in each manifold runner, that way you can tell how each cyl is running;) You are aware that at full chat your turbo hotside and manifold get so hot they almost go see thru arent you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbloodyturbo Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 You are aware that at full chat your turbo hotside and manifold get so hot they almost go see thru arent you? No, I knew they went red'ish but not that hot! So even with my probe seeing 1000-1050 celcius this is probably ok? Just strikes me as too hot as if that's what the turbine housing is seeing then my exhaust valve must be seeing crazy heat. The afr's are all good according to my innovate LC-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 You need Ryan to look at 1) the timing (sounds a bit retarded) 2) the logs of a run up the road. What heat range plugs are you running, how old are the coilpacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbloodyturbo Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 You need Ryan to look at 1) the timing (sounds a bit retarded) 2) the logs of a run up the road. What heat range plugs are you running, how old are the coilpacks Coilpacks are as old as the car. The plugs are new coppers for mapping and are BKR7's. I have iridium 8's but I left them out for the mapping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 New coil packs are really needed dude, treat them as part of the single conversion and change to 8 heatrange plugs, what fuel do you run on? A small restrictive turbo will always run higher egts. Maybe you could run some power pour (works out £5 a tin) and throw in a load more timing to pull the egts down a bit, the readings on mine were at about 1.6 bar I believe after that it made more heat than power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbloodyturbo Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 run on shell super unleaded as i always fill up in the same station next to our yard. It was mapped on this also. I put 7's in as that's what was in the faq's but I'll try some 8's when i get a chance to get to my local factors, I dont really want to put the iridiums in yet when its still poorly. I guess I need to get a set of supersparks then and this may rule out the CP's causing the break up on boost. Just so long as the egt's are ok to move forward with, I'll hook up the laptop and see what I can see with the syvecs as I haven't done that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Definitely new coilpacks, clips and plugs then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprab1 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I wouldn't bother with super spark coil packs, new Toyota coil packs will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbloodyturbo Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 I wouldn't bother with super spark coil packs, new Toyota coil packs will be fine. toyota items are £650, super sparks are £375 and whifbitz use them on their time attack cars and a few on here with big power motors are using them. I've heard a few stories of failures but most of the time they've been with AEM v1's or in conjunction of DLI's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Make sure your pins inside the coilpacks are a tight fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I doubt very much you are really getting 1000 degrees, it's more likely a duff gauge or sensor. Or if the Syvecs is logging the sensor it may be set up wrong. You'd have to be massively retarded (not you, I mean the engine ) to get those sorts of temp on cruise and it wouldn't make much power. Sensor is in a good place, ideally even nearer the ports. Ultimately in the combustion chamber itself. Which is how it's done during manufacturer level engine development. If you have a Syvecs and are thinking of buying new coil packs get Bosch Motorsport ones, the Syvecs will allow the mapper to dial in the ideal dwell time for them. Personally I wouldn't DREAM of mapping or running a turbo engine on copper core plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbloodyturbo Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 The sensor is a defi one and it link's to a defi bf gauge, the syvecs doesn't log it as of yet. Out of curiosity how much are the bosch CP's, i'm guessing pretty much OE coil cost? I thought you were supposed to run copper plugs so they failed before your engine went pop? thats why i fitted them prior to dropping it off for mapping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Defi gauges are total junk and should be given the Lucas flotation test. I had a car here yesterday that showed over 10 bar oil pressure on one of those things, when I know it was far less. One of the other Defi gauges showe engine oil temp rising faster and higher than water temp from a cold start, which is ridiculous. I wouldn't trust them to tell a drunk's fortune on Blackpool Pleasure Beach, let alone give an accurate EGT readout Get a proper gauge for God's sake. If you need a big spark you need a high Joules coil. High Joules coils aren't cheap I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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