Manual Vs Auto Box

[chilli]

Thx.....Ive got several more of those vids...not enough webspace to host all of them

 

imi, I could host them for you, I've got unlimited space as its my server... Not sure how you could get them to me though, I could give you ftp access to upload them, or I could grab them off you one at a time from your site, just an idea

 

nevertheless, not only does that demonstrate the superiority of man over auto, but also shows what a good handler the Sup really is....

 

Yeah its really refreshing to see the supra's handling demonstrated, I think with some good suspension/wheels and tyres the supra really can handle. This is coming from me, someone who drove a Lancia Delta Integrale for the last 4/5 years lol. I don't know what a standard supra handles like, but with uprated suspension (mine has Tein and is lowered a lot and was like that when I got it) the handling is nothing short of excellent!

 

 

Well its not in the UK yet but basically yes. The other ones running 800 brake though which this one isnt

 

Wow who has this 800 bhp monster lol

[DShox]

Tein shocks...me too - have you ever had a '4 point wheel alignment' done to check tracking?

[imi]

I find the standard Jspec setup very very good. Handling is excellent and ride comfort is not too hard.

 

Whats the consensus on the bilsteins setup on the sups?

[DShox]

test drove a uk supra and the bilsteins were very smooth - dont remember any handling problems cos the guy was flying around country roads - then again, i dont think i'll ever get to the point where i corner so fast i'd notice the diff

[Chris Wilson]

I cant recall seeing any spaz boxes on any type of racing cars!!! lol

That's beacuse 99% od series ban them. A decent CVT transmission was quicker than a manual in F1 in the eighties, but they only were around for a very short while until being banned on the grounds of cost and driver lack of involvement.

 

To answer the original question a pro driver would be quicker in a manual, as there is less power loss, the car is lighter, and there are more ratios. They should be markedly quicker in the wet. having said all that my auto MKIV TT was the embarassment of a lot of cars on track, and I still very much enjoyed driving it. IMO the manual 6 speed Getrag is a bit of a dog of a transmission, mainly due to the agricultural gear change and the huge inertia of the stock drive train.

[Chris Wilson]

I love the way manual drivers think we can't engine brake in the auto

If you were a race driver and I your team manager, and the data logging showed you using the engine as a brake you'd be fired for driving like you were in some sort of police driving scheme! Engine braking was condemned to history about the same time as drum brakes disappeared

[Guest chiefvinso]

That's beacuse 99% od series ban them. A decent CVT transmission was quicker than a manual in F1 in the eighties, but they only were around for a very short while until being banned on the grounds of cost and driver lack of involvement.

I didnt mean to cause offence, it was just a bit of trying to get a bit of banta going between the different transmission users. BTW are you the STIG??

[Chris Wilson]

My nickname is Rhino (thick skinned, and always charging), so no offence taken whatsoever. I am not Perry McCarthy, either

[michael]

If you were a race driver and I your team manager, and the data logging showed you using the engine as a brake you'd be fired for driving like you were in some sort of police driving scheme! Engine braking was condemned to history about the same time as drum brakes disappeared

 

 

I must have been off sick from the racing school for that whole term I'm afraid, I'm a serious user of engine braking alongside normal braking, I can see the downsides though, it's certainly not fluid on track and a I had a few 'moments' at Donington when using this method I just tend to drop it down for the corner to ensure the revs are where I want them on the way out rather than hoping the auto box is in 'spirited driving' mood rather than 'lets have a jaunt down to the south of France using the least amount of fuel possible' mode.

 

Plus brake pads are expensive and make my wheels dirty

[Alex]

I'd say, none of us are good enough to actually extract a difference either way...we'd all make up much more time if we actually hit the apex's and braked at the right point...

[DShox]

aye what he said. each to their own. the debate will go on 4ever!

[imi]

 

To answer the original question a pro driver would be quicker in a manual, as there is less power loss, the car is lighter, and there are more ratios. They should be markedly quicker in the wet.

 

I think thats quite Unanimous and conclusive, no need or room for a debate

[DShox]

disagree - there...not unanimous. shouldnt overlook the fact that the nsx auto is a well known disappointment - so shouldnt be compared to a supra auto in the right hands. anyway, i prefer the practicality of an auto, the preservation of my engine and no clutch + most of my driving isnt on a track. some like the auto so therefore people like me think it's a better option.

[imi]

disagree - there...not unanimous. shouldnt overlook the fact that the nsx auto is a well known disappointment - so shouldnt be compared to a supra auto in the right hands. anyway, i prefer the practicality of an auto, the preservation of my engine and no clutch + most of my driving isnt on a track. some like the auto so therefore people like me think it's a better option.

 

Let me explain again.......your expressing YOUR opinion that the auto suits YOU better which is fine, however thats not relevant to this thread....coming back to the answer to the question posed at the start of THIS thread....the answer to which is pretty much conclusive as I highlighted in my previous post.

 

[supRo]

I have a manual. Went to Bovingdon, it was the first time I've ever drag raced. I'm BPU at 1.2 bar.

I beat T61 equipped supra with HKS cams and a Evo FQ300 several times. On one particular run I was beating everyone including CJ, CJ then beat me by just a few car lengths on that run.

I was starting off the line about 2800 revs about 80% throttle on gear 1 and 80% on gear 2 then full throttle towards the upper revs on gear two and rest of the gears.

 

I love the 6 speed manual!

[Bobbeh]

Yes, but this is a discussion about track racing.

 

At the end of the day any real racing driver wants total control over their car, you just dont get that with an auto no matter how hard some of you try to pretend.

[supRo]

Yes, but this is a discussion about track racing.

 

At the end of the day any real racing driver wants total control over their car, you just dont get that with an auto no matter how hard some of you try to pretend.

 

Oops forgot about the specific question

[DShox]

imi - oohh it was MY OPINION...ah thanks for the common sense...excellent work think if you read it properly you'll notice i was simply pointing out that you cant lump all autos into the same box just cos the nsx didnt perform on the vid...nice try tho yea so sue me if i made a comment about preferin' auto - but if u wanna shoot off then be my guest cos im done. by the way - talking about suspensions like we didnt shouldnt therefore have been part of this thread either then.

[Jake]

I cant recall seeing any spaz boxes on any type of racing cars!!! lol

Not funny Dude.

[MONKEYmark]

To answer the original question a pro driver would be quicker in a manual, as there is less power loss, the car is lighter, and there are more ratios. They should be markedly quicker in the wet. having said all that my auto MKIV TT was the embarassment of a lot of cars on track, and I still very much enjoyed driving it. IMO the manual 6 speed Getrag is a bit of a dog of a transmission, mainly due to the agricultural gear change and the huge inertia of the stock drive train.

if i had a choice i would try a manual to feel like you doing something. looks more fun.in the right hands of an experienced driver they will be great. you only have to look at video of nick k racing and beating skylines round track,that was pure class to watch a supra go.

 

auto is great in traffic jams. i had a couple of goes on track in supra and still had plenty of fun in the auto. how many of us supra drivers could push car round a track like chris or nick k.

 

i just bought first supra i seen,happend to be an auto. they pretty cheap to replace too been a common box.

[imi]

the nsx didnt perform on the vid...nice try tho QUOTE]

 

Guess you didnt notice.

 

- NSX wasnt the only Auto in the Vid...

- Point of the Vid was also to show that the Sup can mingle and beat a 4WD monster of a car too... (im sure I pointed this out before)

 

- Final point was that the Supra that did this was a Manual and NOT an auto....

 

While on the same topic.

 

Would love to see an AUTO supra beat a Manual Supra round the track....

Would love to see any Auto car beat a manual car round the track.....

 

Above assumes that both cars are being driven by professional drivers. And the gearbox is an Auto, not some advance SMG type box.

[DShox]

erm i did notice all points (thanks again for checking tho! ) and erm yep i do know the Supra is awesome in any form hence why i have one...and erm so the 6sp may well win sooo you'll have to get stig to do a scientific test if u insist.

[chilli]

Ok Ok I'm sure this topic always gets this heated lol - but in terms of the original question:

 

The manual will be quicker and that seems unanimous and also common sense IMHO... It has 6 gears not 4, it gives less power loss, it allows better car control (even if you don't use engine braking), it's lighter and slightly stronger. Toys like RLTC with full throttle shifting allow even more performance to be extracted from the manual should you require it.

 

For daily driving many people love their auto's, that’s fair enough, I'm sure it's a lovely box. The auto still can be driven very fast and is still an amazing car, an auto still makes a good track car.

 

You need to be on the edge with everything else sussed (braking, racing line etc) before something like the gearbox makes the difference - this is why you will see auto's beating manuals sometimes. But with everything else equal as per the original question, the car with the manual gearbox will be quicker.

 

Regarding F1 CVT transmission, I don't really see how that applies to this convo, the CVT couldn't be further away from a supra auto box if you tried. If you had an F1 CVT box fitted to your car you could drive everywhere at literally max rpm (max for power) lol. This means full power is _always_ available. No wonder this was an advantage and got banned - however Supra's don't come with these, and if they did I expect we would be having threads about engine life and fuel consumption lol...

 

The auto offers other advantages, comfort, effortless driving etc, but pure all out speed around the track is not one of them.

[chilli]

Tein shocks...me too - have you ever had a '4 point wheel alignment' done to check tracking?

 

Actually I havn't yet, thats not a bad idea, just need to find someone who can do decent trustworthy 4 wheel alignment. I've only had the car a few months, got a list of things to do already! I only worked out what my wheels where last night when washing the car lol, I'd been wondering about them for a while lol.

 

How do you have your car set up?

 

Mine is extremely low and the springs/damping is very firm. Means it's less optimised for the wet (don't care) and also for very bumpy roads but it's like a go cart on good roads - perfect for the track, quite shocking how agile it is for such a big car!

[Guest chiefvinso]

Not funny Dude.

Why?