Hoppy Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Hi guys I fitting new Tomei Poncam 264 camshafts and pulleys today. The install all went fine, but now the car runs lumpy, and won't tick over, and although it revs ok, it's putting out a little black smoke from the exhaust, which makes me think the timing is not 100% correct. I set the timing before removing the belt and set the new Tomei pulleys @ TDC which is the position the OEM pulleys were previously set at. I used the correct method of evenly tightening the bolts when installing the camshafts, so i don't think the camshafts themselves are damaged, although i will remove the cam covers again tomorrow and check the cams for any damage, to confirm this. Tomei say these 264 cams are a direct bolt on part and no additional parts are required to fit, and they should run pretty much fine on current ECU settings. Although i will ov course get the car re-mapped to suit these new cams a.s.a.p. Here's some pics of the current timing positions: http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3992/29926784.jpg http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/5663/70552888.jpg http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/8610/27458525.jpg http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/8672/40376248.jpg http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/4919/38019344.jpg Do i need to advance/retard the timing on the pulleys to fine tune the running?? as they are currently set at 0 deg (Tomei default setting) Any help would be much appreciated Many thanks in advance Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Appears to me the crank pulley is out. Did you set the cam belt pulley up with the mark on the oil pump? Did you check everything after you fitted and tightened the tensioner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Appears to me the crank pulley is out. This. Looks a tooth or two out from the looks of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 This. Looks a tooth or two out from the looks of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) Appears to me the crank pulley is out. Did you set the cam belt pulley up with the mark on the oil pump? Did you check everything after you fitted and tightened the tensioner? I set the ATI's (0 deg TDC) mark to match 0 deg mark on the carbon lower cover. Didn't realize the oil pump had a timing mark TBH. Is there a big difference in terms of degree's between the two. First i tightened the tensioner, and then checked/set the timing, to the current position displayed in pics. Do aftermarket camshafts require different default set timing angles?? to compensate for the extra lift etc, or do they normally match the OEM default position. Edited August 11, 2012 by Hoppy (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Yeah on the cam belt pulley there's a little dot, that should line up with another mark on the oil pump case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 The cam positions are fine, but "TDC" on the crank pulley must line up with "0" on the cover at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Ok thanks for the replies and advice so far chaps. I'll remove the adjuster and belt and start from scratch and set timing position points. I'll update the thread with the outcome. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 You should see this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 Was called into work today/tonight so didn't get a chance to work on car today. But i'm not on call today, so plan to spend a full day sorting this timing issue, and re-fit all the other bits. I'll set the timing belt pulley timing mark to line up with the oil pump timing mark (as per your pic) and hopefully the timing issue will be no more. I'll report back here with the outcome later on. Cheers. P.S Thanks for the pic btw, it's much appreciated mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTurtleshead Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 The most likely scenario is that the 0 position on your lower timing belt cover is in the wrong place. It's aftermarket and carbon right? Not a carbon dipped original? I would imagine that the moulding is simply wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Moved to tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 Ok, the previous timing was out slightly: http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/1193/98843871.jpg I re-adjusted the the timing today, and the lower T/belt pulley mark is now aligned to the oil pump timing mark, and the cam timing remains set @ TDC. However, it made very little difference, if i'm honest, the problem remains. The engine ran perfect before i changed the cams, so with the timing now set correctly, i'm thinking the problem must be either with the new camshafts themselves, or possibly one of the coil packs, which were removed before fitting the camshafts. I'll lift the cam covers again in the morning, and pray i don't find a broken camshaft. Is there a way to check the coil packs for issue's?? I've already replaced the original brittle connector clips for the coil packs, so they can be eliminated as the cause. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee P Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Did you re-shim the clearences for the new cams? You may have to adjust the timing to get the car to idle. As long as you are 100% sure the TDC marks are all lined up correctly. As others have said the lower timing wheel must be set to the mark on the oil pump, did you remove the timing star from the back of the pulley at any point? It is actually possible to put this back on back to front so make sure it's on the correct way round. If your 100% sure it's all correct then adjust the cams and keep trying till the idle improves. It sounds like you have to much overlap. The cams should be dialled in to the manufacturers spec but you should be able to get it idling better by adjusting it. The rest can be done on the dyno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 If your car has a stock ECU it will need a reset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai 20V Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Bumping this to find out if it was resolved? Were the cams at fault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 The cams were good mate. I checked the valve clearances, replaced a few shims, and re-adjusted the cam pulley positions and the car ran near perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai 20V Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 The cams were good mate. I checked the valve clearances, replaced a few shims, and re-adjusted the cam pulley positions and the car ran near perfect. Thanks mate, going to order my cams soon.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Looking into ordering these, any feedback on the cams ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Sorry bud, just noticed this. To date these Poncams have performed flawlessly. Car runs smooth as silk on tick over. Made a noticeable difference across the entire rev band, compared to stock camshafts, imo. Very user friendly road cams, as far as I'm concerned. No regrets here bud. Hope this helps Stunning TRD Supe btw. (Jealous +1 ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Sorry bud, just noticed this. To date these Poncams have performed flawlessly. Car runs smooth as silk on tick over. Made a noticeable difference across the entire rev band, compared to stock camshafts, imo. Very user friendly road cams, as far as I'm concerned. No regrets here bud. Hope this helps Stunning TRD Supe btw. (Jealous +1 ) Thanks Mine are sitting in the box here , waiting to go in, just waiting on all my parts to arrive Great to hear good feedback on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Would recommended getting some adjustable pulleys too, if you haven't already ov course. I had to advance/retard the timing a little to get it running smooth on initial setup. As a note: I also fitted new front cam seals during the install, just to be safe. Good luck with the install bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Would recommended getting some adjustable pulleys too, if you haven't already ov course. I had to advance/retard the timing a little to get it running smooth on initial setup. As a note: I also fitted new front cam seals during the install, just to be safe. Good luck with the install bud Thanks for the heads up I have cam seals and rocker cover seals plus adjustable cam gears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
np89 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 My 264s needed 13 degrees on the exhaust cam :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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