Jake Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I have just finished installing the VVTi engine from Rob Oldham's rolled car into my 1998 VVTi RZS but the car won't start. The starter motor clicks but the engine does not turn over at all. The battery is fully charged. When we were fitting the stock Torque Converter (which had been dropped on the floor earlier when removing it from the old blown engine) I was able to turn the engine over ok by means of a spanner on the crank pulley, but now I can't, it's completely solid. When I was fitting the gearbox to the engine I couldn't manually slide the bell housing all the way up to meet the engine. There was approximately a 1cm gap. So I pulled it up the remainder of the way by tightening the bell housing bolts. There didn't seem to be any unusual resistance as I did this. I suppose my next move is to remove the gearbox and see if the engine then turns over ok, right? Any other ideas what I've done wrong or suggestions to try? Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Just a thought here and assuming all cam timing is correct ...wip the plugs out first to eliminate compression so it makes it easier to turn over by hand ..then get under the car and remove the bell housing inspection covers. Check that the TC bolts have not jammed up agaisnt anything in the bell housing. If it is still solid and all looks ok remove all the TC bolts so you can rotate th TC by hand ..this eliminates any drive train faults affecting turnover. There are a lot of things to check before humping the box back out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Also while in the area check that the starter hasnt jamed it self up . Keeps us posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgen-Jm-Imports Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 have u took plugs out to see if it sparks, try this may be a long shot but beats removing the box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 have u took plugs out to see if it sparks, try this may be a long shot but beats removing the box More basic than that . The starter motor clicks but the engine does not turn over at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Jake, I know exactly whats happened. The TC must be 'located' correctly into the gearbox shaft.from your description, it wasn't. The correct proceedure is to slide the tc onto the shaft in the gearbox and turn it until you feel it clunk into position (that is where the cutout on the tc shaft engages with the box) Then you need to offer the box and tc as a unit to the engine. Jake, hate to say it, but I think you may well have shagged your TC and/or gearbox shaft by tightening those bolts without correct engagement. Suggest you remove it again and check the condition of the TC shaft cut out section. They are brittle and known to break easily. Good luck dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I was going to lead on to that, But was trying to break it to him gently ,Don't want him jumping of that cliff... Spot on though and far better at writting than I could ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezz Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Jake, i found a t/c and auto box lying around today. If you need it, let me know dude. Hopefully yours is ok! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 someone get there arse over to Jake's someone could be about to get hurt and i feel sorry for that unfortunate person who is walking past his house lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I'd blame the father-in-law. sure he would have known about this...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Still worth just removing the TC bolts to free up the TC plate and that will be the nail or the feather of it all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldy Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 jake ive done this b4 on a car,sounds like the torque converter wasnt all the way on properly,if its this u need to pull the gearbox out n get the converter on a bit more,the feet on the conveter that sit on the drive plate must be flush with the face of the bellhousing. i did the same when the belll housing wouldnt meet the block and it locked solid just winding it in on the bolts, hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Sorry for the lack of replies guys. The Mrs made me go out to a barbeque. Jake' date=' I know exactly whats happened. The TC must be 'located' correctly into the gearbox shaft.[/quote'] Oh shit. from your description, it wasn't. correct. The correct proceedure is to slide the tc onto the shaft in the gearbox and turn it until you feel it clunk into position (that is where the cutout on the tc shaft engages with the box) Then you need to offer the box and tc as a unit to the engine. but if I do it like that how do I align the bolt holes of the TC with the holes in the (thing that looks like a) flywheel? (What's it called anyway, that thing like a flywheel, but very thin, looks like it's only there for the starter motor?) Jake, hate to say it, but I think you may well have shagged your TC and/or gearbox shaft by tightening those bolts without correct engagement. Oh shit. Yeah well I'm bound to have shagged it, the way Supra stuff has been going for me lately Suggest you remove it again and check the condition of the TC shaft cut out section. They are brittle and known to break easily. Good luck dude.Cheers Charlie. I'll get cracking on it in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Jake, i found a t/c and auto box lying around today. If you need it, let me know dude. Hopefully yours is ok! Thanks Jez but it's a Tiptronic box not your vanilla auto tranny Cheers anyway mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Still worth just removing the TC bolts to free up the TC plate and that will be the nail or the feather of it all I'm not sure what this means Mig. Please explain it to my dumb arse before I norse something else up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Jake, print out pages 26, 27 and 46 this document if you already haven't got the info Hope it helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Jake, print out this document if you already haven't got it Hope it helps Is it a document saying "JAKE IS A RETARD, DON'T LET HIM NEAR YOUR CAR"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 ....oooops, actually this one is much more relevant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 ....oooops, actually this one is much more relevant Thanks John but it doesn't really tell me anything about how to correctly fit a Torque Converter. I already know how to remove a gearbox. Cheers anyway like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_supra Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I'm almost afraid to write this as everyone's reply's are really technical!! but I had a similar sounding problem with my car not so long back. I would turn the key and the starter motor would click once and then do nothing at all. I replaced the starter and all was fine again. Just thought it could be something you might wanna try before taking everything apart again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Sorry for the lack of replies guys. The Mrs made me go out to a barbeque. Oh shit. correct. but if I do it like that how do I align the bolt holes of the TC with the holes in the (thing that looks like a) flywheel? (What's it called anyway, that thing like a flywheel, but very thin, looks like it's only there for the starter motor?) Oh shit. Yeah well I'm bound to have shagged it, the way Supra stuff has been going for me lately Cheers Charlie. I'll get cracking on it in the morning. Ok, when the TC/box is together, offer it up to the bellhousing, (it should close together without any force) fit a couple of bellhousing bolts and nip up. Then rotate the crankshaft via the front pulley bolt until the first TC bolt holes line up (viewed through the inspection hatch. Apply some loctite to the TC bolt and nip up. Rotate again until you see the next hole and repeat. When all the TC bolts are in, Torque to spec. Job done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 That's the closest I can find right now: http://www.max-boost.co.uk/stuff/transmission.gif Not having done it myself, I can't vouch for the accuracy of the manual though, Charlie would know better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Ok' date=' when the TC/box is together, offer it up to the bellhousing, (it should close together without any force) fit a couple of bellhousing bolts and nip up. Then rotate the crankshaft via the front pulley bolt until the first TC bolt holes line up (viewed through the inspection hatch. Apply some loctite to the TC bolt and nip up. Rotate again until you see the next hole and repeat. When all the TC bolts are in, Torque to spec. Job done![/quote'] Eh? There's no way I'm going to be able to get at the TC bolts through that little hole with the engine in the car, is there? There's a wacking great big cross member in the way. It took me like 5 mins to put the rubber inspection cover back on with the engine in situ! Am I missing something here Charlie? Thanks for your patience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I'm almost afraid to write this as everyone's reply's are really technical!! but I had a similar sounding problem with my car not so long back. I would turn the key and the starter motor would click once and then do nothing at all. I replaced the starter and all was fine again. Just thought it could be something you might wanna try before taking everything apart again! I think the key thing with Jakes problem is that he can't turn it by hand either. (I'm guess you can if everything is lined up ok?) Incidently, a whack with a hammer usually frees up sticky starter motors if they're on their way out like yours was. (Works on the kitcar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I'm not sure what this means Mig. Please explain it to my dumb arse before I norse something else up! OK the Torque converter (TC) bolts up to the torque plate (TP) which is the small flywheel plate thingy you mention. If you undo these bolts that hold the TC to TP the engine will be disconected from the TC and you will be able, IF all is OK to turn the engine over by hand again, as efectively the TC is no longer holding it back if jamed, you will also be able to move the TC when its undone which will also give you an indicator if its that is jammed also( that is if its not pinned to the TP). IF the engine does not turn over by hand after this then you have just saved you hands from removing the box again and it leads to another problem . You will hate yourself if you pull the box and the engine is still jamed, Unlikely from the description but i would remove 6 bolts and see rather than the whole box . As this is 1/2 way to removeing the box anyway its a good indicator...as if it turns out to be the motor and something real simple then all you have to do is bang 6 bolts back in. The guys above have hit the nail on the head with the diagnosis ..but its always best to do these little reversal tests as it may just be some real real stupid Theres a full section of TSM manuals on http://vortex-power.co.uk/forum if that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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