Adam W Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 OK, I can see what you're getting at here, but I'm sceptical that enough benzene contamination of oil can occur in 3000-4000 (ie between changes) miles to be a problem. Very interesting thread though, so keep it up! I was relieved to hear you say that Optimax is good stuff though. I just changed back to it after convincing myself that my car was running OK on BP SUL, and even pulling out of the garage forecourt it made a HUGE difference - like someone has silk-coated my engine or something! Plus there was a horrible lumpiness as I went through 3000rpm on part throttle, which has totally gone now, it howls up to peak power without missing a beat. My car seems to really love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Branners, you may indded need to use Optimax all the time (I don't know the spec of your car) but SuL is not good the Benzene broken oil forms sludge, and I think you have ALL heard about and read about what that does to our cars, the other MAJOR contributor is mixing your Oils (Manufacturers). How about looking at it this way, can you name a single Car Manufacturer in Europe(where, as you say, the stuff is freely available) that specifies the use of SuL and not PuL. It is a simple get out for all concerned, 'you used fuel different to that specified by the Manufacturer and as a result shortened the life of its engine' in other words 'tough shit sonny' You can buy a form of Litmus' for testing benzene in your oil, there is a trace shown after 3 miles, and a serious contamination after 1000miles, so Adam I wouldn't rely on incredulity as a good arguement, things can go incredibly badly when you do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wall Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Mycroft, This is getting very interesting, but I don’t have a degree in chemical engineering, I stopped chemistry when my interest in explosives caused temporary deafness years ago:o As regards Benzene actively breaking down long chain molecules and reducing the lubrication properties of Synthetic oil, you say this can occur very rapidly. In a PuL only car the Benzene is absent, but oil will still break down. In terms of miles, how long before a PuL only engine's oil reaches the same state as oil run for, say 1000 miles in a SuL only car? Or is the break down totally different and comparisons can't be made? Given that cost is not an issue which fuel would you suggest out of TOTAL, JET, ELF and OPTIMAX will cause least damage to our engine oil assuming we use a fully synthetic oil. Could you post links to some of your posts Soarer site for those of us who would like to read about this subject. Thanks for your contribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Quote: from Mycroft on 12:49 am on Feb. 23, 2002[br]You can buy a form of Litmus' for testing benzene in your oil, there is a trace shown after 3 miles, and a serious contamination after 1000miles, so Adam I wouldn't rely on incredulity as a good arguement, things can go incredibly badly when you do that. Point taken :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 BMW specifically state that you shoudl use SUL for their M series cars, it's in the M3 handbook. Very interesting thread this. Cheers, Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 PuL cars will have some Benzene contamination (even 4* had Benzene in it) it is just the quantities that were are dealing with here, too much and the whole thing falls apart. The break down is a mildly catalytic reaction, by this I mean that it happens in Very hot engines, Turbo'd cars are a perfect example of a Very hot engine. The reaction breakdown is slow at low temps but if there is enough of the stuff then it will start by solvent action. The reactive breakdown is more fundemental as it takes out of suspension some of the more 'sticky' parts of the oil, the ones that assist in the oil adhering to the surface using Ionic attraction. when these fall out they form sludge and then you are in the shit! I have an ELF garage just a mile from my door and that is my favourite, the Optimax is good, but I always feel that I'm part of the unpaid 'testing program' so use it only when topping up when my ELF guy is closed, I always look to fill up with either of the other 2 if Touring. Whilst in Cornwall recently I had to get 20ltrs of 'Supermarket sweepings' my baby hated the bloody stuff and the throttle response went all to cock! I'd like to post some of the papers I've written on the LSOC and will send some to branners to see if they are suitable for inclusion on this site. On the Oil front my baby has a diet of Halfords Fully Synth, nothing has touched her since I bought her, I get my old oil analysed occasionally and HFS passes the test each time, keeping a high MOL even after 6000mls in 5 weeks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Phil, it also states that fuel should be 95RON with 98RON(PULP) as an alternative, 98(PULP) is the 'proper name' for Optimax! Optimax is also 'Designated' as a Super Unleaded (the term Super-Dooper Un-Leaded being a little silly, but probably more in-keeping with the way things are termed by Admen) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wall Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Ok, Thanks that does make things a little clearer. Basically low performance cars or higher performance cars driven slowly keeping the engine and oil relatively cool, slows the degrading effects of Benzene. So the fuel is not an issue. But for most of us who like to drive our turbo engines hard, the wrong fuel will kill the engine in time. We don't have much choice of fuel locally. Shell, Q8, Total and Supermarkets. Any one got any info on the additives in Q8 fuels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Moch Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 so after all that i will carry on using elf ul ????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raoul H Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Hi,I am just wondering if the implications (re: {rate of} oil contamination/breakdown) are the same for semi-synthetic and mineral oils. I for example use Castrol Magnatec semi-synthetic (10w-40). I use BP SUL normally, with a bottle of Millers for those 'Fast and Furious' days. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich J Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Quote: from Mycroft on 12:49 am on Feb. 23, 2002[br] How about looking at it this way, can you name a single Car Manufacturer in Europe(where, as you say, the stuff is freely available) that specifies the use of SuL and not PuL. Honda UK specify 98 ron fuel for the UK Integra Type R and UK Accord Type R ( it even says so on the fuel cap of my Integra Type R) so they are by default specifying SUL (when it used to be 98 ron anyway) because PUL is only 95 ron. And it's a 1998 car so there was no Optimax at that time. (Edited by HardHead42 at 4:27 pm on Feb. 23, 2002) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 I'll say it again, more simply, 95oct and 98oct PULP (PULP = P.REMIUM U.n-L.eaded P.etrol), they are NOT (by default or intention) saying SuL YOU are making assumptions. Please re-read the spec and if you see PULP it means exactly that PULP not SULP! Phone Honda and ask their Tech. Dept. for a quote that SuL is OK, the line will go silent.....I know 'cos I asked this 3 years ago! Benzene is not fussy at all, it will cheerfully tear apart any oil you care to give it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraTT Posted February 23, 2002 Author Share Posted February 23, 2002 Erm settle down Mycroft dude !! Jeeeez....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soop Dogg Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 C'mon, Supe, don't have a go at Mycroft. He's being hit with question after Question here and he's tyring to answer them. He's put more info on fuel on this site than I've seen before and this has got to be useful to us all. If he's having to repeat himself a few times to get a point across, he obviously will add a little more emphasis on the points we've missed. If we have a go at him, he'll leave the site, and I for one want people with knowledge to stay here to help us. By the way, Mycroft, what about the use of LRP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 Agreed, i am finding all this infomation helpful and interesting, and I think it is good for all of us to know what is really being put in petrol, especially since it is what we put in our supes after all :o It would not strike me as odd for a company to cut corners to get the desired 'effect' and if Benzene is cheaper, I am not surprised some of them use it, i would just like to know that they are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 I'm treading on toes again, sorry. I'm trying to keep it simple and emphasise the bits that you mis-understood from the previous post or to emphasise some new piece of info you may not have had before, I had this 'problem' a little bit on the Soarer site also, in an effort to get as much info over to as many as possible the whole thing has to be simplified a bit, this means that anyone who wishes can pick holes in what I say because by necessity I use as many 'generalisations' and 'analogies' as possible. LRP is something I have not investigated fully as I have no cause to use it and my cursory glance at the compound formula tells me at a glance that I wouldn't put it in my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wall Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 Quote: from Brian Duff on 1:53 am on Feb. 24, 2002[br]C'mon, Supe, don't have a go at Mycroft. He's being hit with question after Question here and he's tyring to answer them. He's put more info on fuel on this site than I've seen before and this has got to be useful to us all. If he's having to repeat himself a few times to get a point across, he obviously will add a little more emphasis on the points we've missed. If we have a go at him, he'll leave the site, and I for one want people with knowledge to stay here to help us. I second that, we need people with technical knowledge on the board, I can't recall anything so detailed on the content of fuels and their impact on our engines before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 I think what Mycroft is driving at is that there are three types of fuel we're discussing: 1: 95oct premium unleaded (no benzene) 2: 98oct premium unleaded (no benzene) 3: 98oct super unleaded (benzene) (plus Optimax which is 98.7oct IIRC) and people are getting 2 and 3 mixed up (in their heads, not their tanks!). Would I be correct in saying that 3 has replaced 2 in the forecourts because it is cheaper to raise octane levels with added benzene than by using advanced refinement techniques? Hence our oil is suffering as a result! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mycroft Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 Adam, yeah..but 1/. PuL (95oct) The 'cheap' stuff. (low benzene) 2/. PuL (98oct) Known as Optimax or BP Energy (High benzene but encapsulated in an Oxident to ensure perfect buning) Just to make life difficult the petrol Companies also call this a Super unleaded in some European Countires. (the ones that refused the third type listed below) 3/. SuL (97/98oct) High benzene, 2/3p ltr more expensive than PuL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren S Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Mycroft, thanks for this info and for all the peeps who have made comments. I've just read this thread from start to finish and I must agree that these sorts of discussions are really useful, so please keep them up. From what I have read here, I will continue to use the cheaper PUL from Shell in my UK TT or move up to Optimax when my mileage drops slightly. Cheers guys, great input. You couldn't get this anywhere else than from a dedicated fans site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 we have the same oil company scams in canada.. petrol was mandated to have 2% ethenol in sales across canada . so they stuck ontario the biggest province with 10% in our premium and super unleaded, and the rest of the country doesnt have to deal with this fake octane booster. while we in ontario get stuck with PUL @91-92 octane or SUL @ fake 95 octane .. supras run just as well on the pul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Holy thread resurrection!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 My god there are some names from the past in this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Shame we don't have discussions on quite this level now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Shame we don't have discussions on quite this level now... Seeing as all that crap mycroft made up and spouted about Super Unleaded only being for older cars and would ruin new ones turned out to be just that, no it isn't. Reminds me of that other berk who claimed Optimax hid their RON figures as it was only 95RON, despite it being on the pumps and Shell themselves putting it in writing that it was at least 97RON. Tedious attention seeking idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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